Would you buy an electric truck?

[grsthegreat]

How much do you consider engine replacement cost when buying a truck or tractor?

As with engines, EV batteries have at least 10 year service life. My Tesla is coming up on 7 years with 6% loss in battery capacity.

i dont. My dodge is 26 years old, 335,000 miles. Same engine. My ford is 16 years old, 106,000 miles same engine.

 

[grsthegreat]

A Tesla Model 3 consumes 260 Wh/mile measured at the charge cable, including all charging and storage losses. 250 miles would be 65 kWh, $16.25 at the Supercharger.

$2.03 is exceptionally cheap for diesel. Not too long ago I had to pay $4.299/gallon in Missouri.

Today gasoline is $1.819 at Walmart. At $0.25/kWh and 0.260 kWh/mile cost is $0.065/mile, which at today's cost of gasoline is 28 MPG$. But at my home cost of electricity is $0.0234/mile and 78 MPG$. Plus there is no "3 minute fill" (you can't really pump 20 gallons in 3 minutes) as it takes about 15 seconds to plug in and the car is always full when I am ready to leave.

The thing ignorant EV haters can't seem to understand is how little EV drivers make use of Superchargers or other charging facilities away from home. I have free lifetime use of Superchargers for my Model S but have only used the Supercharger once or twice this year. When I buy electricity at home for $0.09/kWh it is not worth my time to hang around the Supercharger for 30 minutes to save $5. Plus the nearest is 20 miles away. When I bought the car the nearest Supercharger was 580 miles away.

EVs do not need "gas stations". Gas stations are not the normal means of fueling an EV. Tesla is brilliant in building their Supercharger network not waiting for "government" or someone else to do it. Superchargers are not for daily use but to facilitate travel between cities. I can drive from Alabama to Michigan in one day with 3-4 Superchargers along the way.

Well, my dodge fills in about 3 minutes. The station i use has semi filling bays. Those babys pump some serious fuel.

 

[mikester]

A Tesla Model 3 consumes 260 Wh/mile measured at the charge cable, including all charging and storage losses. 250 miles would be 65 kWh, $16.25 at the Supercharger.

$2.03 is exceptionally cheap for diesel. Not too long ago I had to pay $4.299/gallon in Missouri.

Today gasoline is $1.819 at Walmart. At $0.25/kWh and 0.260 kWh/mile cost is $0.065/mile, which at today's cost of gasoline is 28 MPG$. But at my home cost of electricity is $0.0234/mile and 78 MPG$. Plus there is no "3 minute fill" (you can't really pump 20 gallons in 3 minutes) as it takes about 15 seconds to plug in and the car is always full when I am ready to leave.

The thing ignorant EV haters can't seem to understand is how little EV drivers make use of Superchargers or other charging facilities away from home. I have free lifetime use of Superchargers for my Model S but have only used the Supercharger once or twice this year. When I buy electricity at home for $0.09/kWh it is not worth my time to hang around the Supercharger for 30 minutes to save $5. Plus the nearest is 20 miles away. When I bought the car the nearest Supercharger was 580 miles away.

EVs do not need "gas stations". Gas stations are not the normal means of fueling an EV. Tesla is brilliant in building their Supercharger network not waiting for "government" or someone else to do it. Superchargers are not for daily use but to facilitate travel between cities. I can drive from Alabama to Michigan in one day with 3-4 Superchargers along the way.

I'd be interested in seeing your actual miles driven vs actual KWhrs charged. The trip computers on gas cars are notoriously optimistic and usually don't come close to actual Litres per 100km or miles per gallon. Do you track your KWhrs in any way?

I did some research and basically all electric vehicles have a very similar KWhr/mile or KWhr/km. Based on the published numbers and my current cost of electricity of CDN$0.18/KWhr and electric car costs about CDN $0.04/km driven vs my Prius Hybrid which averages about CDN $0.05/km based on CDN $1.00/L fuel cost.

Excalibur (Tesla S) | Fuelly
Nga’s TESLA M3 AWD Dual Motor (Tesla 3) | Fuelly
Tesla (Tesla 3) | Fuelly

My estimate is that when my electrical costs exceed CDN$0.25/KWhr then the cost per km on the electric vehicle is about the same or more than a hybrid. Unfortunately our electrical rates are to increase 50% by 2025. Heck, for COVID the utility announced they are saving me money by switching from Time of Use Pricing to fixed rate and jacking up the cost by 30%.

The benefit of the hybrid is no range anxiety - I can go up to 1000km on a tank and it takes me 5 minutes to fill at any station. Last summer I drove home from out east, 1800+km in 18 hours, one stop to refill the tank. You wont be doing that trip in a Tesla in one day.

For a city car, or, if I only went short commuter distances, I think electric is a good way to go. I wouldnt rely on an electric if I had to drive long distances or in inclement weather. Another problem with battery operated cars is cold climates. My hybrids lose 10-20% range in winter here in Canada. Ive talked to some Tesla owners here and some will grudgingly admit to losing 40-50% range in cold and inclement weather, especially if their cars are parked outdoors. What I thought was interesting is that Teslas have to use electric heaters to pre-warm the car batteries for use and you lose regenerative breaking when the car isnt at operating temperature.

I would not buy an electric truck for these reasons.

 

[grsthegreat]

Now, for you electric vehicle owners , heres a question that i have always wanted to know. It doesnt apply where i live, but when i lived in Southern California, i would be stuck in traffic jams more times than not. Sometimes crawling a few miles in an hour in 100 degree miserable heat. This is the main reason i moved in 1993. I know that the electric vehicles are designed with city driving in mind. How do they handle this. Does ac keep operating? Can they run out of power after so many hours at standstill? How do you recharge in middle of freeway? Just wondering.

 

[Grumpycat]

Now, for you electric vehicle owners , heres a question that i have always wanted to know. It doesnt apply where i live, but when i lived in Southern California, i would be stuck in traffic jams more times than not. Sometimes crawling a few miles in an hour in 100 degree miserable heat. This is the main reason i moved in 1993. I know that the electric vehicles are designed with city driving in mind. How do they handle this. Does ac keep operating? Can they run out of power after so many hours at standstill? How do you recharge in middle of freeway? Just wondering.

The HVAC is independent of the drive system. Tesla has a "camp mode" for deliberately leaving the HVAC system running all night while one sleeps in the car. This is observed to draw 1-1.5 kW. To compare a Model 3 draws 0.260 kWh/mile. So an hour of idling is about 5 miles of range.

 

[sd455dan]

I see no advantages to an electric truck. I would be more interested in an electric tractor where the battery weight is an advantage. I rarely use my tractor more than zix hours at a time so keeping it charged and ready would not be issue. But it would need to be cost competitive.

Here you go now on the market in ~22HP class

And No it is not cost competitive

But that day is coming in most of our lifetimes,but that is jmo .


Farmtrac Electric Tractor as featured on BBC Countryfile | 100% Independent, 100% Electric - YouTube

 

[5030]

JD has one as well, utility sized 6 hour run time, 120 grand. Step right up with your extension cord.

 

[Grumpycat]

I'd be interested in seeing your actual miles driven vs actual KWhrs charged. The trip computers on gas cars are notoriously optimistic and usually don't come close to actual Litres per 100km or miles per gallon. Do you track your KWhrs in any way?

The car provides a display which is surprisingly accurate, not fudged the way every MPG meter seems to be.

As for EPA ratings my S is 0.380 kWh/mile from the grid. I perched a utility meter from eBay and installed on my Tesla circuit. I observe 320 kWh/mile is my average consumption. I am beating the EPA rating.

I did some research and basically all electric vehicles have a very similar KWhr/mile or KWhr/km. Based on the published numbers and my current cost of electricity of CDN$0.18/KWhr and electric car costs about CDN $0.04/km driven vs my Prius Hybrid which averages about CDN $0.05/km based on CDN $1.00/L fuel cost.

2013 Model S 85 is 0.380 kWh/mile
2020 Model X Long Range is 0.350.
2020 Model 3 Long Range is 0.260.
2020 LEAF and BMW i3 is 0.300 and 0.310.

These are EPA ratings from the power grid in to the car, not the in-car numbers of power out-of-battery.

The benefit of the hybrid is no range anxiety - I can go up to 1000km on a tank and it takes me 5 minutes to fill at any station. Last summer I drove home from out east, 1800+km in 18 hours, one stop to refill the tank. You wont be doing that trip in a Tesla in one day.

With a Tesla one would expect to stop for 20 minutes every 120 miles.

For a city car, or, if I only went short commuter distances, I think electric is a good way to go. I wouldnt rely on an electric if I had to drive long distances or in inclement weather.

Superchargers are not for daily use but they do make long distance travel possible.

 

[Grumpycat]

i dont. My dodge is 26 years old, 335,000 miles. Same engine. My ford is 16 years old, 106,000 miles same engine.

You are deliberately not reading what I wrote but what you want to see.

 

[Oaktree]

Today gasoline is $1.819 at Walmart.

The thing ignorant EV haters can't seem to understand is how little EV drivers make use of Superchargers or other charging facilities away from home. I have free lifetime use of Superchargers for my Model S but have only used the Supercharger once or twice this year. When I buy electricity at home for $0.09/kWh it is not worth my time to hang around the Supercharger for 30 minutes to save $5. Plus the nearest is 20 miles away. When I bought the car the nearest Supercharger was 580 miles away.

EVs do not need "gas stations". Gas stations are not the normal means of fueling an EV. Tesla is brilliant in building their Supercharger network not waiting for "government" or someone else to do it. Superchargers are not for daily use but to facilitate travel between cities. I can drive from Alabama to Michigan in one day with 3-4 Superchargers along the way.

I resent being labeled as an "ignorant EV hater" for pointing out the many shortcomings of these cars. Excuuuse me for not being a fanboy and jumping on the bandwagon of a technology that's not really very practical for a large percentage of the population.
Home chargers are fine if (1) you don't generally drive very far, (2) you have a single family home with a driveway and/or garage and (3) are willing to put up the $$$ to install a 40A 220V circuit for a charger that will recharge in a semi-reasonable amount of time. What about people who live in apartments, or have to park in the street or a public lot some distance from home? Never mind those who have long commutes.

Even this super charger network leaves a lot to be desired. My guess is that it's gonna be a long time before these exist any distance away from an interstate. Also, having to hang around for the better part of an hour for a (partial) recharge is going to get old fast.

I've never seen a WM that sold gas, some Sam's Clubs do, but it's members only.

The trip computers on gas cars are notoriously optimistic and usually don't come close to actual Litres per 100km or miles per gallon.

The benefit of the hybrid is no range anxiety - I can go up to 1000km on a tank and it takes me 5 minutes to fill at any station.

I agree that a hybrid is much more practical than an EV, and IMHO will remain so for quite a while to come. No they're not "cool" anymore, but the technology is mature and it does the job, especially now that it's being incorporated in "normal" vehicles and not just in vehicles targeted at the greenies.

Can't speak for others, but I've found the trip computer on my Jeep to be reasonably accurate over the long term.