Yet Another Well Pump Issue

[TheGoose]

Is yours a submersible pump or jet pump? It would make a big difference whether or not you can use a check valve at the tank.

The plastic is probably not ABS but PVC. ABS, to my knowledge, is not pressure rated. Normally used for DWV (drain, waste, vent) lines, but not pressure.

Also there is the possibility that your check valve or footvalve is leaking back in the well, which is causing your pump to cycle. I'm not sure why the rain would have showed where the leak is. The leak should have been really visible if it was dry.

 

[QueBota]

UPDATE:

Excavated near the leak site, 2x2x2 foot deep hole, turned on the pump, eventually water made its way to the inital hole that we dug. Appears the pipe is approx. 2 to 3 feet to the side of the inital hole. Pretty close guess on my part. Water is visible running into the new hole at a depth of approx. 2 feet, which makes sense, the code for frost line around here is 2 feet. Still haven't been able to put my hands on the water line, but I feel that I am close.

There is a maze of sweet gum roots that we have chopped and hacked our way through, tough sledding, hard to get a good swing at the roots and hard to see what is what. I have used the hose to try to rinse things off, good and bad, rinses things off but fills the hole with water. Hesitant to use the chainsaw, the bar and chain will be trash within seconds of cutting out the roots. Looks like the only solution at this point is to did a bigger hole. It appears that the water line is buried under and obscured by roots at this time.

I am done for tonight, hard work. Will start enlarging the hole after work tomorrow.
The leak appears to be relatively minor, all things considered. We should be able to get by turning on the pump as needed for the next day or two. We have pool water to flush and 5 gallon jugs for cooking/washing/ etc.

Thanks for all the help, will update tomorrow.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[chkntrktr]

The black pipe in use in the 60's and 70's does get leaks in it, I dug up a line I had several times and cut it in two where the leak was, used a plastic nipple and hose clamps; however, like The Goose said it was visible where the leak was. With a dry spring you would already have had a wet spot. Last year my pump was cycling a lot and it was caused by two wires rubbing together and shorting. Seems like the thing they put in the wells to keep the pump from tourqing (?) (can't remember the name) broke, let the pump move some and the wires rubbed together until they wore through. Also, another time had a leak in the line in the well itself. It cycled a lot then also.

OK, when i posted I saw you had already found your problem. Good luck, sounds like a real job.

 

[QueBota]

Is yours a submersible pump or jet pump? It would make a big difference whether or not you can use a check valve at the tank.

The plastic is probably not ABS but PVC. ABS, to my knowledge, is not pressure rated. Normally used for DWV (drain, waste, vent) lines, but not pressure.

Also there is the possibility that your check valve or footvalve is leaking back in the well, which is causing your pump to cycle. I'm not sure why the rain would have showed where the leak is. The leak should have been really visible if it was dry.

The ground was soo dry that is was absorbing the water for the most part. When we received the 4" of rain in less than 24 hours it saturated ground and allowed the leak to show. It has been very very dry around here since last fall. It seems the leak was just small enough to be absorbed by the soil and plants without creating a visible wet spot on the surface, at least that's my theory.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[turnkey4099]

Digging at the wet spot is no gaurantee you will find the leak, wter from one can suface a long way from the leak location. Try getting long, thin rod, insert alongthe pipe run and apply ear to tother end, you _may_ be able to hear the hiss when near the leak location.

Neer did understand why people put check valves at the pressure tank end. It accomplishes nothing unless there is a leak - then it is only a work-around solution to avoid repairing the leak. Bottom line it does not cure the problem. Leak is still there (and will get worse) every time the pump runs.

Hiring a couple day laborers to dig the area near and under the power lines would then allow you to rent a ditch witch for the remainder of the run.

I agree with others. Replace the line.

Harry K

 

[QueBota]

Agreed, the line will be replaced.

I'm sure after I repair the leaking section another leak will develop within a few months.

The line has been in service since 1979. Still haven't put my hands on the line yet, but have to be close. Looking at the mass of sweet gum roots that the line passes thru I'm amazed that the line isn't broken in multiple places, there are roots larger than my calves.

Boss is going to let me head home early today, going to do some more digging. Will feel relieved once I locate the water line. Going to splice/patch for now.

Anyone have an idea how deep on the well casing the water line that feeds the pressure tank is located. I have a PVC pipe which protudes above the ground about 8 to 10 inches at the location of the well. I replaced the cap a few years ago with an updated style.

If I can find the location where the water line connects with the feed line from the well I may run an above ground line to feed the pressure tank for the warmer months while I try to figure out the best route to run the new line (far away from the electrical service).

If I can't dig enough to locate the line this afternoon it's off to the local Home Depot insearch of Latino laborers ( no offense intended ). I have used them in the past, if you get some good guys it is a win win situation for all parties involved, they appreciate the work and give an honest effort.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[turnkey4099]

Agreed, the line will be replaced.

I'm sure after I repair the leaking section another leak will develop within a few months.

The line has been in service since 1979. Still haven't put my hands on the line yet, but have to be close. Looking at the mass of sweet gum roots that the line passes thru I'm amazed that the line isn't broken in multiple places, there are roots larger than my calves.

Boss is going to let me head home early today, going to do some more digging. Will feel relieved once I locate the water line. Going to splice/patch for now.

Anyone have an idea how deep on the well casing the water line that feeds the pressure tank is located. I have a PVC pipe which protudes above the ground about 8 to 10 inches at the location of the well. I replaced the cap a few years ago with an updated style.

If I can find the location where the water line connects with the feed line from the well I may run an above ground line to feed the pressure tank for the warmer months while I try to figure out the best route to run the new line (far away from the electrical service).

If I can't dig enough to locate the line this afternoon it's off to the local Home Depot insearch of Latino laborers ( no offense intended ). I have used them in the past, if you get some good guys it is a win win situation for all parties involved, they appreciate the work and give an honest effort.

Thanks,
Dave

The outlet from the well casing will...ummm should be close to the same depth as your pipe.

Harry K

 

[chopped]

Actually it does accomplish something, It works in conjunction with the 'foot' valve in the pump end.Its been standard practice here for 45 years that I know of.But yes its just a quick fix in this case.It doesnt sound like he has a pin hole leak at this point..Hopefully its an easy splice fix when its located.

 

[QueBota]

The outlet from the well casing will...ummm should be close to the same depth as your pipe.

Harry K

Thanks, that's what I was thinking, I also thought it might be a bit deeper, wouldn't be much trouble to put it down at bit more when installing the casing (PVC in this case). Haven't messed around with this type of well setup before, hesitant to dig around the well casing at this point.

Good news, I found the pipe and the leak. It was about two feet away from my initial 2x2x2 foot deep test hole. Strange looking leak, not a hole or a split put a series of small holes, almost looks like the tree roots levered the pipe into splitting open. The pipe runs through a maze of tree roots that you would have to see to believe. We had to do some major hatchet work just to get to the point of viewing the pipe. The leak is visible just before it disappears into a hole in the gnarliest bunch of sweet gum roots you could ever imagine. The top of the pipe is accessible but the bottom of the pipe rests on a very large sweet gum root. Once I get this cleaned up as much as possible it is going to require some chainsaw work, going to have to find my oldest bar and chain.

The leak is not very large, I can stop most of it by placing my thumb across the leak, it tends to trend across the pipe. There is a large root above the leak. I wedged a washcloth between the pipe and the root for now, reduced the leak by about 50%, good enough for tonight.

Also found a length of the pipe that I believe is used in the water supply. When my son comes in I will have him read the info from the pipe, I can read it. Will take pics when I come home tomorrow. The pipe is black and appears to be 1" pipe, it is barely flexible.

I think my pressure tank was ready for a recharge just before this happened. I am only leaking about 3 or 4 gallons between 60 psi and 40 psi. Not sure if that is a good thing at this time.

Thanks for the help, hope to update with pics tomorrow afternoon/evening.

Dave

 

[Carl_NH]

I would imagine you have 160PSI black polyethene pipe - used with barbed fittings at the tank and pump well (Pitless adapter). You might have 100PSI version but that is thinner, like .060" wall thickness versus the 160 PSI pipe has almost .100 wall thickness. You should see the imprinted label on the pipe. One test, 100PSI pipe 1' long you can bend in half easily, 160PSI pipe 1' long to bend in half by hand is not easy.

I installed pumps in PA area in the 70s and we used poly pipe exclusively black 160PSI pipe and also blue poly that was lighter, more flexible rated at 200PSI and tough.

I would dig 2' either direction and replace the pipe for at least 4-5' beyond the area of the leak just ot make sure there are no other holes/roots in the line. Also use brass 1" barbed connectors and good SST clamps - 2 per connection and heat the pipe with a propane torch for 20 seconds around the pipe to make it easier to slide on. A bit of vaseline doesnt hurt either.

I would leave this uncovered for a week or two to ensure you are leak free then take pictures of the hole and well cap for future reference. Ultimately I would replace the entire line, so fix it temporarly then have some day labor in to dig it up completely. A 125' run in decent soil (no 10" rocks or roots) is a good day for a hard worker, and if roots and rocks maybe 3 days at most.

Carl