You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?

[k0ua]

I ain't ended up in Oz yet but you never know. My manual states to have 1045 lbs on the back. How about yours? Well I think we use the same book?

yup!. Which is kind of interesting as your loader will pick up over 1000 lbs more than mine.

 

[ovrszd]

As covered in several previous posts, the rear counter weight can not add weight to the front axle, but it can add to the forces experienced by the front axle when a heavy weight is carried forward of the front axle. The example would be "lifting" a heavy object with the FEL while rear counter weights are in place. Ballisted tires or add on wheel weights will do the same. It's all been covered over and over. Weight behind the axle is just another case of the same thing.

There is really no front or back in these considerations. If the tractor were completely symmetrical with a CoG located at the midpoint between the two axles, loads at one end would be reacted at the other in exactly the same way. Vis a Vis ;-)


Might be a handi piece of equipment ;-)

My Daddy always said "never play another man's game".

Using your much more eloquent description, there is a situation where adding rear ballast weight adds to the forces experienced by the front axle rather than lessening it.

 

[sd455dan]

Okay, I can't stand it any longer. I'll take a stand on the skid steer example.

The loader arms on the skid steer must mount at the rear of such a compact machine to get arms long enough that it can raise the bucket to an acceptable height. If the length of the arms is mandatory and you hinged them at the front of the machine the bucket would be 5 feet farther forward from the machine. All practical design features would be lost.





That is the way it was explained to me years ago- Skid steers mount loader arms at rear and generally fairly high up to be able to lift loads high enough to be useful




With the SS bucket as close to the front tires as possible, and the hinge point as far rearward as possible, it can still stand on it's nose if the bucket is overloaded. Been there, done that many times.


That's 2 of us- have even stuck the bucket on the L778 under what ended up being pretty immovable and lifted the entire rear off the ground... and the old New Hollands had long wheel bases compared to most skid steers.

 

[k0ua]

I can usually tell in the tractor seat when I've reached the magic number.

I dunno.. Earlier in my tractor/loader career, When I chained a rock too big to fit in the Kubota bucket up to the FEL bucket, and took off uphill, I kept wondering why the rock seemed to be slowly getting closer to the ground, and about that time I noticed the wife was having some kind of fit off to my left side. She was trying to explain that my rear tires were 3 foot off of the ground. Yes I was headed backwards up hill. and the rock kept falling to earth, and I kept trying to raise it with the joystick.. I was puzzled for a second, but did have the presence of mind to operate the joystick to drop the rock on the ground gently and let the rears come back to earth slowly. Wow! that was fun. And that was with my 750 lb ballast on the back 3pt. I had not loaded the tires yet at that point though. I wound up dragging the rock uphill with a log chain..

 

[sd455dan]

I dunno.. Earlier in my tractor/loader career, When I chained a rock too big to fit in the Kubota bucket up to the FEL bucket, and took off uphill, I kept wondering why the rock seemed to be slowly getting closer to the ground, and about that time I noticed the wife was having some kind of fit off to my left side. She was trying to explain that my rear tires were 3 foot off of the ground. Yes I was headed backwards up hill. and the rock kept falling to earth, and I kept trying to raise it with the joystick.. I was puzzled for a second, but did have the presence of mind to operate the joystick to drop the rock on the ground gently and let the rears come back to earth slowly. Wow! that was fun. And that was with my 750 lb ballast on the back 3pt. I had not loaded the tires yet at that point though. I wound up dragging the rock uphill with a log chain..

Well- I guess your front wheel drive is working well

 

[oldpilgrim]

Of course you can still tip a skidsteer on it's nose. Nowhere did I say that ALL weight is transferred back. I just said, the further back the lift point the more the weight goes to the rear.

I agree ONE of the reasons the pivot point is way back is for lift height but let's assume that's not important.

Let's assume you only need to lift the bucket load, say 6 inches. Let's load a conventionally designed SS bucket with a load that barely allows the rear wheels to stay on the ground when lifted those 6 inches. But they DO stay on the ground. One pound more in the bucket and it would take a nose dive.

Now lets redesign the lift arms and cylinders so the lift cylinders attach just over the front axle and the lift pivot point is just a few inches behind that. Bucket is the same distance from the front axle as before.

With the same load in the bucket, what would happen if you tried lifting the load? Would the front axle have more load on it than before?

Btw, youse guys might all be nuts, but I'm enjoying discussing this with you bunch of cashews.

 

[k0ua]

Well- I guess your front wheel drive is working well

Yeah it was crawling up hill on its front tires, with the entire tractor weight, the ballast weight, and what ever that big ole rock weighed. All on the front axle. It is a wonder something didn't go POP.

 

[4570Man]

No, but you would have to add weight to make up for the weight lost in the shorter arms.

 

[jenkinsph]

The loader arms on the skid steer must mount at the rear of such a compact machine to get arms long enough that it can raise the bucket to an acceptable height. If the length of the arms is mandatory and you hinged them at the front of the machine the bucket would be 5 feet farther forward from the machine. All practical design features would be lost.

With the SS bucket as close to the front tires as possible, and the hinge point as far rearward as possible, it can still stand on it's nose if the bucket is overloaded. Been there, done that many times.

.......

I agree with this ^^^^^ need the loader arms as long as possible to get the higher lift height. It has nothing to do with placing more weight on the rear of the ss.

 

[ovrszd]

I dunno.. Earlier in my tractor/loader career, When I chained a rock too big to fit in the Kubota bucket up to the FEL bucket, and took off uphill, I kept wondering why the rock seemed to be slowly getting closer to the ground, and about that time I noticed the wife was having some kind of fit off to my left side. She was trying to explain that my rear tires were 3 foot off of the ground. Yes I was headed backwards up hill. and the rock kept falling to earth, and I kept trying to raise it with the joystick.. I was puzzled for a second, but did have the presence of mind to operate the joystick to drop the rock on the ground gently and let the rears come back to earth slowly. Wow! that was fun. And that was with my 750 lb ballast on the back 3pt. I had not loaded the tires yet at that point though. I wound up dragging the rock uphill with a log chain..

I've done that soooo many times. When it really unnerves me is when it's on a steep side hill in the Grader. the lower end of the blade keeps digging in the ground, I keep raising it, it keeps digging, finally the "seat feeling" alerts me and I realize the upper rear wheels of the grader are off the ground!!!!