Your last generator Maintenance Run

[3930dave]

Yamaha bought a couple of the bigger Subaru tooling ect. and is making those engines.

The rest of the line was sold to a Chinese company and they will be built in china and sold as Subaru's...

SR

Good 411, thanks !

Rgds, D.

 

[check]

I would add that I am confident the V twin Vanguard clone Generac in my 22kw gen would last more than 1000 hours.
Generac/Vanguard uses some seriously good oil rings in those engines, I have never seen the oil level go down.

Interesting. My 17kw Kohler uses A LOT of oil, and frankly I don’t see why this is necessary.

 

[daugen]

Interesting. My 17kw Kohler uses A LOT of oil, and frankly I don’t see why this is necessary.

I'm now on my second Generac 20-22kw whole house gen and they both have been the same. I change out perfectly clean oil once a year and the level is always full. Now I bet if it ran for a full week it might use some, but just speculation. On long outages, I always shut down for several hours once a day, if only to check the oil, and so far, the oil consumption has been negligible.

SR, thanks for info on Yamaha buying Subaru equipment, never knew where those engines went. Kubota used Subaru engines on several models, including my RTV400. Yamaha is a remarkable company, engineering driven, like Subaru, probably similar corporate culture which helped the deal. How many other engine manufacturers also make grand pianos?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Interesting. My 17kw Kohler uses A LOT of oil, and frankly I don稚 see why this is necessary.

I have a 20hp Kohler with 500 hrs on it, it starts easy, runs really nice, but it uses oil. It's the only small engine I own that I have to keep an eye on, for oil usage...

It's had regular oil changes with good oil, and it doesn't matter what oil I use in it, it still uses oil...

SR

 

[Sawyer Rob]

SR, thanks for info on Yamaha buying Subaru equipment, never knew where those engines went. Kubota used Subaru engines on several models, including my RTV400. Yamaha is a remarkable company, engineering driven, like Subaru, probably similar corporate culture which helped the deal. How many other engine manufacturers also make grand pianos?

Thanks for reminding me!!!

Kubota bought one of the Subaru engines/tooling too, but I THINK it's the 2 cyl that they are now using in their 850 ?...

At least, that's what I read in an industry magazine that usually has all the latest/greatest news... lol

SR

 

[3930dave]

I have a 20hp Kohler with 500 hrs on it, it starts easy, runs really nice, but it uses oil. It's the only small engine I own that I have to keep an eye on, for oil usage...

It's had regular oil changes with good oil, and it doesn't matter what oil I use in it, it still uses oil...

SR

May be just low-tension rings.... going back a long ways, various manufacturers have pushed that strategy too far.

Some recent car engines use enough oil that I'm tempted to chase down what the oil consumption is in a modern 2 stroker....... my money is on the 2 stroker......

Rgds, D.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

One of the most common misconceptions is that engines should use little or no oil. It’s a choice between emissions and engine life and manufacturers would rather have engines use oil and outlast the warranty period.

An engine that uses no oil will have better emissions but rapidly wear the cylinders and one that uses moderate oil will last a very long time but produce higher emissions. For a typical car engine that’s about a quart in 5000 miles and an engine that uses that amount from new will usually still use the same amount after 150,000 miles.

The “target” for a midrange Diesel engine like a 15L about 3 gallons of oil in 250 hrs. Max allowable would be around 8 gallons in 250 hrs at 60% load.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

An engine that uses no oil will have better emissions but rapidly wear the cylinders and one that uses moderate oil will last a very long time but produce higher emissions. For a typical car engine that’s about a quart in 5000 miles and an engine that uses that amount from new will usually still use the same amount after 150,000 miles.

My wives car has NEVER used any oil, at least if it does, you can't detect it on the dip stick... It now has 221,000 miles on it, and it STILL doesn't use any oil and oil changes happen every 5 to 6,000 miles or so, depending on several things, like convenience.

When does this wear start ?, and when will I notice it when I step on the gas, because it runs/sounds and has power just like it did the day I bought it!

My Colorado doesn't use any oil either...

SR

 

[3930dave]

One of the most common misconceptions is that engines should use little or no oil. It痴 a choice between emissions and engine life and manufacturers would rather have engines use oil and outlast the warranty period.

An engine that uses no oil will have better emissions but rapidly wear the cylinders and one that uses moderate oil will last a very long time but produce higher emissions. For a typical car engine that痴 about a quart in 5000 miles and an engine that uses that amount from new will usually still use the same amount after 150,000 miles.

The 鍍arget for a midrange Diesel engine like a 15L about 3 gallons of oil in 250 hrs. Max allowable would be around 8 gallons in 250 hrs at 60% load.

Interesting #'s on that 15L , a bit higher than I would have expected. Thanks for sharing that.... many of us don't get to play with "mid-range" engines that size.....

Plenty of people would kill to only go through a quart in 5000, even km, at that..... in the new and expensive vehicles with these issues. I don't expect zero consumption, but some of these engines are truly ridiculous....... certain Subaru 4's, and VW 1.8T for example.

And..... very few road vehicles have what many $300 generators do..... Low Oil Shutdown...... meaning the non-permanent version.....

I found it "interesting" that the generation of circa GDI engines that ushered in a lot of these problems also coincided with the end of tailpipe emission testing (here)........ Trust the computers...... Trust the computers.....

(I was discussing this ^ extensively with a really smart mechanic buddy of mine, long before dieselgate broke publicly....)

As a close friend of mine crafted on a T-shirt all those years ago....... Don't Accept, Question !

Rgds, D.

 

[check]

Interesting #'s on that 15L , a bit higher than I would have expected. Thanks for sharing that.... many of us don't get to play with "mid-range" engines that size.....

Plenty of people would kill to only go through a quart in 5000, even km, at that..... in the new and expensive vehicles with these issues. I don't expect zero consumption, but some of these engines are truly ridiculous....... certain Subaru 4's, and VW 1.8T for example.

And..... very few road vehicles have what many $300 generators do..... Low Oil Shutdown...... meaning the non-permanent version.....

I found it "interesting" that the generation of circa GDI engines that ushered in a lot of these problems also coincided with the end of tailpipe emission testing (here)........ Trust the computers...... Trust the computers.....

(I was discussing this ^ extensively with a really smart mechanic buddy of mine, long before dieselgate broke publicly....)

As a close friend of mine crafted on a T-shirt all those years ago....... Don't Accept, Question !

Rgds, D.

Yes, Dave, and indeed my Kohler generator did shut down one time because of a “low oil” condition. There had been a multi-day power outage, and in that one event, the generator used up enough oil that the low oil safety mechanism kicked in and shut the generator down. Scary stuff! And it is why I also have a freeze/power out alarm (even though my generator has an automatic standby switch).

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Generators intended for prime power or long runs are typically fitted with oil make up systems. When they are used for continuous prime (like running a town or a mine) where 250hrs isn’t a long enough service interval an oil removal system is used to take a measured amount of oil out every hour and either add it to the fuel, or on newer engines, dump it into a tank. Ren is one aftermarket system.

On higher end engines, this is controlled by the ECM and based on fuel usage (loading) and temperatures and can extend the service interval as high as 2500 hours before you shut off the engine.

Another way to extend the run time is an extended sump, sometimes as simple as putting the engine on top of a tank or drum of oil and extending the pickup to the bottom. Not uncommon for a 5.9L B model to have a 100 gallon sump. Even small Kubota units will have makeup systems or 75 gallon extended sumps when installed on mountain tops where they run continuously and can’t be accessed for 4 or 5 months over the winter.

 

[Industrial Toys]

A friend bought a lister/Stamford set out of a lighthouse, from the Canadian Gov. that had the huge volume oil system.

How do you mean, adding the oil to the fuel? What would that do to replace burned cranky oil?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Cummins use to offer it as an option... It fed the crank case oil to the engine, according to fuel use, and the same amount of new oil went into the crank case at the same time from a separate tank.

You just changed the filters from time to time...

SR

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

All of that has gone away with tier 4 emissions. Aftermarket systems would just dump back the the fuel tank and it would get burnt in the fuel. We are only talking a couple CC’s per hour typically. Now they just dump to a waste tank.

The oil is replenished with a makeup valve... Just a float at the running oil level. The problems really start when backyarders put these on without any high level lock off or shutdown. You know you’re gonna have a long day when you show up and there’s oil running out the air cleaner and out of the generator building.

Here’s one example, there are others:

REN™ Fluid Level Management Products | Cummins Filtration

 

[3930dave]

Yes, Dave, and indeed my Kohler generator did shut down one time because of a æ–—ow oil condition. There had been a multi-day power outage, and in that one event, the generator used up enough oil that the low oil safety mechanism kicked in and shut the generator down. Scary stuff! And it is why I also have a freeze/power out alarm (even though my generator has an automatic standby switch).

Well, at least the shutdown circuit did its job as intended :thumbsup:

I for one am glad that they are often found on even small generators..... even if your "normal" consumption is low, Murphy is always around. Check the oil in a hurry, oil plug not quite fully screwed down... it could vibrate off eventually.... esp. on the smaller gens, it's not hard to splash enough oil out of the fill port to shut it down. No, :laughing: I haven't pulled that stunt yet with a gen, but I've once managed to knock loose the normally very secure Hi-Top automotive-style dipstick on my push-mower - even with a fast shutdown with the dead-man switch, it was surprising how much oil flew out of that high up tube.....

Where gen oil consumption does become a headache is if you don't have any fresh oil nearby..... big PITA, if you were stuck in-place during a serious emergency. I may have too much oil stockpiled, but I'd sooner err that way....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

All of that has gone away with tier 4 emissions. Aftermarket systems would just dump back the the fuel tank and it would get burnt in the fuel. We are only talking a couple CC逞ｴ per hour typically. Now they just dump to a waste tank.

The oil is replenished with a makeup valve... Just a float at the running oil level. The problems really start when backyarders put these on without any high level lock off or shutdown. You know you豎*e gonna have a long day when you show up and there逞ｴ oil running out the air cleaner and out of the generator building.

Here逞ｴ one example, there are others:

REN Fluid Level Management Products | Cummins Filtration

Bad day indeed..... even a litre of oil is a pain to cleanup....

People/companies think they're saving money by not paying for lockouts like you describe..... in 1970, maybe, but the enviro fines on a spill today can be truly staggering.

Rgds, D.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Yes, they paid, paid, and paid some more. Then the the fines were assessed.

I wouldn’t want to be the one responsible for that.

 

[Industrial Toys]

POWER OUT AGAIN! This time, more customers involved. Weather, sunny and perfect??? I still didn't have a good battery, but luckily, had a crappy one on trickle charge a couple of feet away, and the Onan 7.5 Kubota Diesel started right up (cold). Hot and Cold Water, microwave to heat my morning coffee, INTERNET, any amount of lighting, some heat, cats have their heating pad, and my boot warmer. 7.5 does a lot!

 

[hr3]

I have a generator like the one here and would like to take the enclosure off. It's just a pain in the butt to work on with it on. Any thoughts ????

 

[Industrial Toys]

Some Diesels have been designed to be quiet. Others are just the way they are, put inside a padded cabinet. You may not like the noise. Otherwise, go for it. It's all about marketing/appearance and nothing about being practical.