Your time is not free

[SPYDERLK]

What is the value of satisfaction achieved when you do a custom job to your specs? What is the value of capability and convenience these attributes continually contribute to all future endeavors?
larry

VERY HIGH!! That's one of the OP's points!!!
-Jer.

Huh? :confused2: Pls quote the post that gave you that idea.
larry

 

[blueriver]

Wow ... sure did take off, lots of comments.

 

[jgrreed]

Huh? :confused2: Pls quote the post that gave you that idea.
larry

I can't sift through this whole thread anymore...... You're probably right, point taken.

It is one of my main points though!!

-Jer.

 

[harpoonalt]

I see so many threads where the poster claims they only have a few bucks worth of materials in a project. I always calculate my own "shop hourly rate" into my projects to see whether I am actually saving money by doing some of these things myself. My personal rate is $90/hr.
My current wind powered pond aerator project is rapidly nearing the cost of the commercially available ones using this calc, but I'm in too deep to stop now so I will just go on and see it through.
It's an old habit and hard to break as the urge to do it myself is very strong. I am learning slowly that everything you bring home takes a little piece of your life away from you, whether it is a dozen eggs, a TV or a tractor. Spend your time wisely.

$90 an hour? Could you break that down for me? Is the $90 just for your labor? Or are you including fixed costs, depreciation, etc? I strived for $50 an hour in my lawn/landscape business. Of that $50, about $23 was my labor. The rest was taxes, expenses, depreciation on equipment and on and on. I have a new appreciation for why plumbers charge what they do.
At $90, not many projects make any financial sense for you. Most people here take on projects because they love the challenge, the feeling of pride and accomplishment they get, and share with others because it's how we all learn. Saving money is a necessity to some. They have the tools, the time, and if they have no way to make extra money otherwise, a good opportunity to keep money in their account rather than pay someone else. If you buy a quality tool for $500, but never use it, it's cost is $500. Use it for a project that saves you $500 and the cost is now $0. The tool still has value and can be sold or used to save even more money.
When we built our house, I saved over $50,000 in costs by doing all sorts of jobs. The tractor alone saved it's purchase price. It's cost to me, in my mind is nothing. I got a free tractor with my labor. I have some quality tools that will last a lifetime and an education that to me is priceless. When and if my kids buy houses, I'll be prepared to do stuff for them.
I think you struck a nerve with some folks because you questioned their projects "value". Most people here don't make anywhere near $90 an hour, and in this economy certainly many don't have the luxury of even considering having others do work for them. It sounds to me like you got into a project that you may wish you hadn't started. As you go through life you find stuff that you like and stuff you don't. I hate painting. I charge $500 an hour to paint. I hire it out. Tractor stuff? I get a $1.50 an hour, so it makes sense to do all my own stuff. Throw that $90 an hour out the window.....Life isn't that black and white. Do the stuff you like to save money so you can hire out the stuff you don't. Simple as that.

 

[joes_427_vette]

When I walk my dog I only charge twenty dollars an hour. I'm taking him to the bank next week so he can withdraw some money for past expenses. Oh, in case your wondering... I mark up his food and treats by fifteen percent. Water is still free.
Charging yourself for a hobby is the dumbest thing I have heard today ( maybe a lifetime ). Takes all kinds.

 

[jas67]

Your point is only valid if in fact you had real income generating work you could be doing instead.

True, but I do use this logic to justify having my tractor (and having paid for). In fact, there are a lot jobs that just wouldn't get done without it. It is a huge time saver. Money, I can get more of, eventually, but time, I can't.

I guess by the logic of this thread, I should give up on heating with firewood and wood pellets, and go back to fuel oil. I guess the wood pellets might be break-even vs. the fuel oil, as they don't require that much time, although, I do spend about 20 minutes each weak doing a minor scrape and clean on the burn in the boiler.

As for the firewood, at $90 an hour for my time hauling, cutting, splitting, handling, etc, it is WAY more expensive than the fuel oil

Never mind the fact that, being a desk-bound worker during the week, I enjoy the time spend outside doing these tasks, and that I'm helping saving the planet by burning a carbon-neutral fuel instead of fuel oil/diesel fuel (leaving more of it available to burn in my tractor and truck).

The reality of it is, that yes, while I could spend that time on a 2nd job (that probably wouldn't pay very much), I still have far less money going out of pocket to heat the house. AND, the gov't hasn't yet started taxing me on money that I avoid spending, where a 2nd job, would mean more taxes paid (and wasted by the gov't).

 

[jgrreed]

Err, could someone explain what is wrong with being called a greasemonkey?

Nothing is....

you can call me Greasemonkey all day long, especially on my days off when I'm covered in it, or sawdust, or black silicone (like I was yesterday, and am about to be again.....). Call me a redneck, hick, hillbilly, I don't care. It's happened before. Imagine the looks I get when I pull into the MD's parking lot with my lifted F350!!!

Just don't call me a Yuppie and lump me into the metrosexual, 100$ haircut, weekly pedicure, BMW 3 series driving, can't do **** for themselves crowd, only because I can afford to pick and choose what projects I choose to take on and which ones I hire out......

In case I forget - Happy Birthday to Tungalar on NYE!!! I'll being having a beer for you (and 10 for me.....). Can I can you "Deadliest Catch" from now on??

-Jer.

 

[greasemonkeyok]

Thanks. Thought for a while that I was going to have to change my screen name.

 

[some zilch]

. My personal rate is $90/hr.

wow, your personal in-house shop rate is more than my last employer charged for a fully equipped, tandem axle service truck to show up on your jobsite and work on heavy construction equipment. you must do awesome work.

 

[o2batsea]

$90 an hour? Could you break that down for me?

No. Read the posts

At $90, not many projects make any financial sense for you.

You got that right chum. I am VERY choosy about what I bodge together.

When we built our house, I saved over $50,000 in costs by doing all sorts of jobs.

It is still standing?

I think you struck a nerve with some folks because you questioned their projects "value".

Reread the posts. I never ever wrote nor implied anything like that. You are misinterpreting the concept.

Most people here don't make anywhere near $90 an hour, and in this economy certainly many don't have the luxury of even considering having others do work for them.

I don't make anywhere near $90 an hour either, wish I did. I consider having my Dentist work for me, and my HVAC guy work for me, and sometimes a carpenter too. I hate to pay for that stuff but it beats having my teeth fall out. Well, maybe it would be for the best if they did so I don't have to hear them chatter in the cold when my furnace goes out.

I don't care if anyone else uses my calculation for themselves or not. Most of the responses seem to be from misanthropes anyway. I think everybody here thinks exactly the same thing as I do when they sit down to start on a something or other....we all have to decide if it's worth it to make or buy. I don't think any of you think about what your time is actually worth. It may not be $90 but it's not zero and it's more than what your salary/wage is by a fair amount.

 

[o2batsea]

wow, your personal in-house shop rate is more than my last employer charged for a fully equipped, tandem axle service truck to show up on your jobsite and work on heavy construction equipment. you must do awesome work.

Dude that's just the funniest stuff. I am actually pretty good, yes. Awesome, well, I'm close, but not there yet.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Service rates were explained to me this way.

$5.00 to fix the problem, $85.00 to know what the problem was.

 

[doall]

One way it could cost you more. We had a sign in our shop that read "hourly rates. 1 domestic=$50 per hour 2 imports= $60 per hour 3 If you have already tried to fix it $100 per hour."

 

[brain55]

Service rates were explained to me this way.

$5.00 to fix the problem, $85.00 to know what the problem was.

Ain't that the truth. I actually charge $90/hr for my services. I get paid more for what I know, than what I do.

When I am busy it makes more sense to have work done by others. When I am slow like I am now, I do more stuff myself. The 30K service just came up on my wife's car, normally I would have her take it to the dealer and pay the $300, this time around I bought the $50 in parts and spent the hour to do it myself. I take pride in being a mechanic and having the financial ability to not work on my wife's car. The last thing I want to do, is wrench all day, and then come home and work on her car.

I get the point that was being made. Maybe it is because I actually charge $90/hr for customer work. Or maybe I didn't over analyze it.

Brian

 

[smstonypoint]

One way it could cost you more. We had a sign in our shop that read "hourly rates. 1 domestic=$50 per hour 2 imports= $60 per hour 3 If you have already tried to fix it $100 per hour."

Good one!!:thumbsup: I read this over at the JLC forum -- "My rates are $50/hour, $75/hour if you watch, and $100/hour if you try to help."

Steve

 

[Mace Canute]

Most of the responses seem to be from misanthropes anyway. I think everybody here thinks exactly the same thing as I do ...

That's pretty funny!
Didn't think that one through, did ya?

You strike me as someone who, quite simple put, is "Full of himself."

 

[MikeD74T]

Mace, it was worth reading 14 pages of this thread just to read your assessment! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

As to the OPs thread: I filed my first income tax return in 1966 as a teenager. Have been working in blue collar since then, mostly as an employee with about 3 years of self employment. Even when self employeed I never had the option of unlimited work thus my income was limited. Wanting to do better for my family I often did weekend work but never made enough to pay for others to work for me. Much of that extra work was improving my home and property. 25 years ago I took 3 weeks off and put in an inground pool. When finished I had a better pool /patio for $7500 in materials than a friend had for $21,000. Granted he only had to write a check but I'll bet he didn't make $14,000 during that 3 weeks, nor could have I. My children enjoyed the pool for many years as do my grandchildren now. Because I worked some weekends my family was able to vacation on others rather than sit at home & watch tv`.

Last month I got my annual social security wages/benefit summary. I've earned (paid social security on) about $1.4 million over the 43 years. I have two paid for homes, assessed at about $510k, about $360K in savings, and about 80K in stuff, vehicles, toys, furniture, etc. Considering that I paid almost 1/3 of the 1.4m in taxes, 1/3 in living expenses, I figure I've still got 1/3 of my total earnings. Guess that made my free time worth about $21k per year as I figure I only have this "worth" because of my sweat equity. I don't know what this all means but I think I can retire in 6 months & several of my classmates that paid their way thru life rather than work weekends, etc, can't afford to. Only time will tell...which I hope to have a lot of soon. MikeD74T

I do have a question for the economists. Carpenters primarily have only time to sell. It's worth is based on their knowledge as well as their productivity. Most carpenters now use nailguns rather than a hammer. Nailgun nails cost (my pricing is probably outdated but..) 8 times the cost of loose nails & nailguns, compressors, hoses are expensive as well. The question; why would any carpenter trade money for more expensive tools & nails to save time when time is all he has to sell?

 

[Bison]

Good one!!:thumbsup: I read this over at the JLC forum -- "My rates are $50/hour, $75/hour if you watch, and $100/hour if you try to help."Steve

Funny,i watched a mechanic fiddle with a bolt he could not get started,after 5 min trying and cussing he laid the bolt down and walked away to get some other tool,I took the oportunity to try it myself and ran it in with no problem.
When he came back and wanted to grab the bolt it wasn't there.The look on his face was priceless when i told him the bolt just needs torquing,i put it in for ye,just delete 10 min from the bill.

 

[Willl]

Funny,i watched a mechanic fiddle with a bolt he could not get started,after 5 min trying and cussing he laid the bolt down and walked away to get some other tool,I took the oportunity to try it myself and ran it in with no problem.
When he came back and wanted to grab the bolt it wasn't there.The look on his face was priceless when i told him the bolt just needs torquing,i put it in for ye,just delete 10 min from the bill.

Awesome, sometimes ya just gota see it from the other side. :laughing:

 

[zmoz]

One of the major reasons I do everything I can myself is because nobody else knows how I want it done besides me. Furthermore I don't trust most people to do it without watching them. There are lots of times I find myself doing stupid things late at night in the shop and I think "I should be hiring somebody else to do this", but by the time I find the right person and explain exactly how I want it done and then check it over when they're finished...I could have just done it already!

Last time I thought I was "too important" to work on my brakes, the shop I went to managed to ruin all four of my wheels and forgot six lug nuts. How do you even do that? When I came back to chew them out there was somebody else already there who's front wheel had just FALLEN OFF because they neglected to tighten the lugs.