Your towing rigs and trailers

[Redlands Okie]

What expenses are there on North American diesel engines that we dont have ?

Here in Holland, road tax is 3x as high on a diesel car, but because of fuel savings and diesel being 25% cheaper, fuel costs usually half of a petrol car.

When it comes to maintenance, i remember spark plug and coil replacements which i never did on a diesel. My friends V70 2.4 gas needs more maintenance than my V70 D5 and they both need synthetic oil...

USA diesel coat more per gallon than gas. All of the maintenance cost more. Fuel filters ( often times two of them) , oil, air filters cost more. The oil often cost more and quite a bit a few quarts are usually in a diesel here than a similar gas engine. For some reason labor charges are more on diesels. If parts are needed same problem

 

[aeblank]

USA diesel coat more per gallon than gas. All of the maintenance cost more. Fuel filters ( often times two of them) , oil, air filters cost more. The oil often cost more and quite a bit a few quarts are usually in a diesel here than a similar gas engine. For some reason labor charges are more on diesels. If parts are needed same problem

That's probably all true, but I still loves my diesel.

I've mitigated some frequent failures by doing things. Also do my own maintenance, too.

The ease with which it pulls my camper is worth a lot. It is no more tiring for me to tow than not tow. That's mostly the over size truck, but I'm convinced the diesel is a (admittedly small) portion of it.

By all means, buy the gasser. No skin off my rear. Hope it's everything you want and more. My next one probably will be one too.

 

[Renze]

Interesting... i get 50 mpg, 55 when i try hard. My friend gets 30mpg. He has coils and spark plugs to replace, i havent replaced anything else than oil and filters on my previous S70 TDI. Thats with blindcapped EGR.

The V70 D5 has DPF, but they seem to be trouble free as im told. My mate needs synthetic motor oil in his gasser too because of hydraulic valve tappets.
Indeed my Common Rail fuel filter costs 35 euro where the VP37 TDI could do with a 15 euro filter. But those are minor expenses compared to the fuel savings.

I must add, i only buy well proven cars, i dont need to buy new vehicles to stay ahead of rust, like you do with pickup trucks.. I picked a 2007 model because it has a soot filter so i dont pay additional soot tax and can drive in inner cities where non dpf diesels are prohibited, and because the 2006 model had cam and follower wear issues because Volvo started prescribing 0w/30 fuel saving motor oil in 2006, but upped the cam and follower hardening for my 2007, and gen 3 from 2008 onwards has more electrical issues.

The problem with pickup trucks is that when the mechanics are old enough to have proven reliable, the frame or body rots apart, so you have to gamble with unproven technology every few years...

 

[lman]

Interesting... i get 50 mpg, 55 when i try hard. My friend gets 30mpg. He has coils and spark plugs to replace, i havent replaced anything else than oil and filters on my previous S70 TDI. Thats with blindcapped EGR.

The V70 D5 has DPF, but they seem to be trouble free as im told. My mate needs synthetic motor oil in his gasser too because of hydraulic valve tappets.
Indeed my Common Rail fuel filter costs 35 euro where the VP37 TDI could do with a 15 euro filter. But those are minor expenses compared to the fuel savings.

I must add, i only buy well proven cars, i dont need to buy new vehicles to stay ahead of rust, like you do with pickup trucks.. I picked a 2007 model because it has a soot filter so i dont pay additional soot tax and can drive in inner cities where non dpf diesels are prohibited, and because the 2006 model had cam and follower wear issues because Volvo started prescribing 0w/30 fuel saving motor oil in 2006, but upped the cam and follower hardening for my 2007, and gen 3 from 2008 onwards has more electrical issues.

The problem with pickup trucks is that when the mechanics are old enough to have proven reliable, the frame or body rots apart, so you have to gamble with unproven technology every few years...

What are you towing while getting 50 mpg? What vehicle are you talking about? I would love to get that kind of mileage when hauling 3 horses or 10,000 lbs. Of hay.

 

[BigBlue1]

Interesting... i get 50 mpg, 55 when i try hard. My friend gets 30mpg. He has coils and spark plugs to replace, i havent replaced anything else than oil and filters on my previous S70 TDI. Thats with blindcapped EGR.

The V70 D5 has DPF, but they seem to be trouble free as im told. My mate needs synthetic motor oil in his gasser too because of hydraulic valve tappets.
Indeed my Common Rail fuel filter costs 35 euro where the VP37 TDI could do with a 15 euro filter. But those are minor expenses compared to the fuel savings.

I must add, i only buy well proven cars, i dont need to buy new vehicles to stay ahead of rust, like you do with pickup trucks.. I picked a 2007 model because it has a soot filter so i dont pay additional soot tax and can drive in inner cities where non dpf diesels are prohibited, and because the 2006 model had cam and follower wear issues because Volvo started prescribing 0w/30 fuel saving motor oil in 2006, but upped the cam and follower hardening for my 2007, and gen 3 from 2008 onwards has more electrical issues.

The problem with pickup trucks is that when the mechanics are old enough to have proven reliable, the frame or body rots apart, so you have to gamble with unproven technology every few years...

What vehicle are you referring to that gets 50-55 mpg? I haven't heard of that great of mileage since the 80's or 90's before all the modern emission stuff got piled on diesels. That's great!

Also, what modern day gas engine vehicle has to replace coils and spark plugs anywhere near enough to be a real maintenance concern? Most gas engines in the past couple of decades could go 60-120K miles on plugs and coil packs are not wear items but only replace if failed, and that is super rare (in my experience). The diesel maintenance costs listed by Redlands above are noticeably higher than any gas engine vehicle of similar type.

Diesel engines certainly have a place and can be fantastic. My point isn't to counter that, just to call out the real world differences in cost. I know a lot of people who tow enough to make the costs worth it. But also tons who are far better suited by a gas engine in their less-frequently used tow vehicle.

 

[ning]

Interesting... i get 50 mpg, 55 when i try hard. My friend gets 30mpg...

Is that miles per gallon England style?
If so, most readers of this forum should knock ⅙ off of the number to get the equivalent USA mpg, and you should add 20% to USA mpg to get numbers you're familiar with (the difference being UK mpg uses imperial gallons).

 

[Fallon]

Is that miles per gallon England style?
If so, most readers of this forum should knock ⅙ off of the number to get the equivalent USA mpg, and you should add 20% to USA mpg to get numbers you're familiar with (the difference being UK mpg uses imperial gallons).

Ya, US gallons are 4 quarts. English gallons are 5 quarts. Which accounts for a fair bit. European cars tend to be smaller than US cars, which accounts for a bit. Some of the testing is different between the US EPA & European equivalent. So the same exact car gets a higher rating in the European test than the US ones.

 

[ptsg]

I'm pretty sure it's US mpg.

On my sister's 2015 Renault Clio with a 1.5L turbo diesel engine producing 90 HP, it will do easily 60 US mpg and I've squeezed 65 mpg out of it a couple times. I know it sounds like very low HP but it's plenty for the car it is and moves in the traffic just fine.

 

[ning]

We were in Ireland in 2013 and rented pretty good sized car (6 seater, 3 rows) and if I recall it got about 50-55 mpg US. Not a rocket, but definitely sufficient.

I've personally thought most cars in the US are vastly overpowered for a long time, especially for what they're mostly used for - commuting. For a while we had a '74 VW Westphalia camper van, and when our "commute" car (a Mazda 626 - rocking 90hp!) was in the shop, I commuted in the vw over a congested mountain highway (CA17) and I recall being passed by, and passing later, various furious sports cars, and leaving the highway 45 minutes later with the same fancy cars I'd gotten on with in the first place.

Now my wife's family car has 50% more power than my own sports car once had (Mazda Rx7 turbo II), but it's driven only slightly faster than that old VW was.

 

[Renze]

Is that miles per gallon England style?
If so, most readers of this forum should knock ⅙ off of the number to get the equivalent USA mpg, and you should add 20% to USA mpg to get numbers you're familiar with (the difference being UK mpg uses imperial gallons).

I take 1 mile = 1.6km and 1 gallon is 3.8 liter. I run 20km per liter average, commuting, and can get a trip average of 23km per liter if i try.

With 163hp and 340 Nm i spin the tires at 1500rpm in 1st and 2nd gear when towing on wet streets, so i have no need for the 185hp version of this engine unless it comes with AWD, but AWD doesnt get this fuel mileage so i'm good with this

 

[Renze]

I know it sounds like very low HP but it's plenty for the car it is and moves in the traffic just fine.

A 90hp turbo diesel is as nimble in traffic as a 120hp gasser, unless you run the gasser above 4000rpm. I picked up my brother this morning, who stranded at the gas station with, what turned out to be a gear selector cable popped off. With 2 ton behind me i run with the flow of traffic while staying under 2000rpm. Torque is a luxury you get used to very quick.

 

[deezler]

Enough chatter about little european diesel sedans, lol. Let's get back on track.

Only my second haul with this trailer and tractor. I don't prefer to load in the dark, but when it's pitch black at 5:15 after a day at work, what are you gonna do. Tractor heading to dealer today to investigate a persistent check engine light; runs great but I can't chance some warranty coverage.

By the time I got to work today, the sunrise was looking good. I think I loaded the bare tractor just a bit heavy on the tongue. No problem for the truck though.

 

[duramaxsky]

I like to see clean GMT 800 trucks. I have a 2003 I bought new. I really like the truck. So much so that when I bought a new truck I kept it. The new truck is a 1500 so it's nice to still have a 2500HD for hauling stuff. Here's mine.
View attachment 724434

 

[duramaxsky]

Don't know why it loaded a link.

 

[deezler]

Very nice. Yeah I really like seeing other clean GMT800s on the road too. Becoming a classic, almost. At least in places like Michigan here, where salt destroys them. I try not to drive mine on salty roads, but had to today (ugh).

I bought my 2003 from the original owner, he bought it in New Mexico and kept it super clean. I zeibart rust-proofed it but the cab corners are still starting to get the cancer again.

 

[aczlan]

Enough chatter about little european diesel sedans, lol. Let's get back on track.

@Renze has a midsized to large wagon (depending on one's scale), not a little sedan and I suspect tows more often than 80% of the 0-10 year old pickups on the road here in the US. A Euro-spec 2007 Volvo V70 D5 is rated to tow 3900-4400#:
View attachment 724629

Aaron Z

 

[oliver1555]

@Renze has a midsized to large wagon (depending on one's scale), not a little sedan and I suspect tows more often than 80% of the 0-10 year old pickups on the road here in the US. A Euro-spec 2007 Volvo V70 D5 is rated to tow 3900-4400#:

Aaron Z

I’m not sure that tidbit really helps most of us. My trailer weighs 5500# empty and my 2000 Dodge CTD brings that to 13,000# for the empty combo. Add my 1555 Oliver and I am grossing 21,000#. My JD 4440 brings that to a little over 26,000#.

 

[Renze]

I’m not sure that tidbit really helps most of us. My trailer weighs 5500# empty and my 2000 Dodge CTD brings that to 13,000# for the empty combo. Add my 1555 Oliver and I am grossing 21,000#. My JD 4440 brings that to a little over 26,000#.

My combo weighs 13.000# too, occasionally... its illegal, though not unsafe.

When i want to haul 26.000# i take the tractor. Will order a set of final drive gears from a 2000 model, to get 35kmh, which makes the occasional 30 mile trip less boring.

 

[Renze]

Also, what modern day gas engine vehicle has to replace coils and spark plugs anywhere near enough to be a real maintenance concern? Most gas engines in the past couple of decades could go 60-120K miles on plugs and coil packs are not wear items but only replace if failed, and that is super rare (in my experience). The diesel maintenance costs listed by Redlands above are noticeably higher than any gas engine vehicle of similar type.

I only mentioned engine related maintenance that my mate has, because i have had none. I havent even replaced glow plugs in 200.000km... My 1999 S70 TDI was absolutely trouble free, engine wise... My new (to me) V70 D5 has big boots to fill...

Oh yes, my TDI needed a pump timingbelt every 60.000km, which consists of cutting the old one in half, sliding on the new one halfway, cutting the last half of the old one, and sliding the new one further on. That was all Diesel related maintenance i ever did on it..

Maybe its because i can still choose from plenty of rust free Diesels from a bygone era of lower emission standards, but here in Holland, the general consensus is that you save on fuel and maintenance with a diesel, if you break even on the higher road tax on diesels...

 

[Renze]

What are you towing while getting 50 mpg? What vehicle are you talking about? I would love to get that kind of mileage when hauling 3 horses or 10,000 lbs. Of hay.

No, not when towing... a round trip of 150km to pick up a 2 ton tractor, (going empty, returning loaded, 90-100kmh on the cruise control) gets me around 1 liter per 10km, which is roughly 23 to 24 miles per gallon.

Towing a horse trailer or load of hay, you get frontal surface getting wind drag, so no chance getting anywhere near that mileage...

Tow vehicle was my 1999 Volvo S70 2.5 TDI, unfortunately no longer with us because VW doesnt deliver the crankshaft sensor anymore for MY 99 and 00...