pennwalk
Veteran Member
Jim, The King of Obsolete pointed me to Red power forums. Red Power Magazine Community (Powered by Invision Power Board) The people there seem to know a lot about IH equipment.
Chris
Chris
Looking at an International 250C
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jinman
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Thanks Chris. That does look like a good source of info and even spare parts. Those guys are loyal IH fans.
jimmysisson
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I'm sure you've thought this over but a track loader is good at moving material but not so hot for grading as you can't tilt the blade/bucket. With experience you'd be able to grade a slope but it'll take a little while. A blade is better for finishing as well. Just a thought, not sure just what you want to get done. Fun to own, in either case, and you'd have liked it in your avatar situation!
Jim
Jim
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jinman
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Yes Jim, and thanks for the info. I do very much know the limits of a track loader and my use is such that I feel the loader bucket will be an advantage. Cleaning out ponds and building new ones is what I want to do. The bucket will give me the ability to move lots of material or load a dump truck for hauling. That's what I'm looking for.
I went to look at the dozer today and took some pictures. It ain't pretty, but it started instantly and ran like a new one. The engine seems to be very strong. Also all the pins on the loader were tight. I guess that's what you would expect on a loader that can break out 38,000 lb and most of its life it only had to lift a 2-1/2 yard bucket full of dirt. Anyhow, it has the normal amount of leaks and looks pretty ragged, but it seemed to work just fine. I want to talk to a friend about it before making a final decision.
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crashz
Veteran Member
Looks good Jim!
The under-carriage looks OK, some evidence of normal wear, but from the pics, it looks like the sprockets are worn pretty bad. It could be just the angles or my crappy eyesight, but it appears they are worn to a point. You don't want them to slip, because the tracks will jump off, and then you have a real mess on your hands.
Otherwise it looks like a heck of a beastie!
The under-carriage looks OK, some evidence of normal wear, but from the pics, it looks like the sprockets are worn pretty bad. It could be just the angles or my crappy eyesight, but it appears they are worn to a point. You don't want them to slip, because the tracks will jump off, and then you have a real mess on your hands.
Otherwise it looks like a heck of a beastie!
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Hi Jim,
Sorry I didn't see this sooner and thanks for mentioning it on another thread. While I don't know anything first hand about International equipment, I do have an opinion on dozers in general. I hate them!!! I know that I have one and I've been able to do allot with mine, but I can't imagine a happier day then the day I sell it.
The good points are what it will do. It's truly amazing.
The bad is keeping it running. My days of wrenching and enjoying it seem like a very long time ago. Wrenching on the dozer is actually easier then on a car by the simple fact that it's just easier to get to everything. Of course, it's all heavier then anything on a car, but with lumber, jacks, chain and a comealong, you can do just about anything on it yourself.
There is a reason that big construction compaines sell their equipment after a certain amount of hours. Some sell at 2,000 hours, others at 4,000. The reason is that maintaining and repairing them means that they are not making money when not working. Breakdowns happen more often the older the machine gets.
If it's really what you want, then buy it with the knowledge that you will be wrenching on it. You might be able to do this in your work area and at your leasure, but you will also have those times when it's in the bottom of a ditch, or in a tangle of trees. Figuring out the problem is one thing, getting it off might take days.
My latest repair was the fan broke off of the bracket from my 8.3 Cummins engine. Not what anybody would think of as an unusal item. Unfortuantely, my dozer wasn't one of the more popular ones and the used a unique fan for it. New, that fan cost almost $1,100. But Case no longer supplies it, so the parts guys worked on figureing out what was close that I might be able to make work. Fortunately I found a used on online in Florida for $350 plus shipping. With the other parts that broke, this cost me $930 and two weeks of down time.
My pumps are made by Sundstrand, which is a very common, well known brand. When one of them went out, Case said a replacement pump was $20,000 I found a place to rebuild it for $2,000 and another $1,000 for the drive motor. This was a two month project.
You will need parts. I can't begin to gues what you will need, or when, but it will be an ongoing issue for the entire time that you own it. Filters and some other items might be found at the auto store. Napa and ABC are both good for those things on my tractors, so maybe they will have them for International too. I don't know.
Operating the machine is fun for the first day, maybe the second. But very soon, it become work. Then after awhile, it becomes torture. Spending the day on the dozer for me is a matter of knowing that I'll be rattled all evening. It's a full body work out and requires remaining fully allert mentaly at all times.
With what you have said that you want to do, and remembering your previous post about Silt and the track loader that you had in there, I think I understand where you are coming from.
Have you considered something with wheels? My favorite tractor is my backhoe. Its' comfortable to be on all day, it's sips fuel and I can accomlish just about anything with it short of mowing grass. If you really want to move as much material as possible, then a wheel loader would be a good option.
Tracks suck. There is some good that they offer, but only for short distances and in very rough terrain. Getting on the dozer takes an effort, lots of planning and a very specific need. Getting on the backhoe is almost natural. I haul the garbage with it, I take out the biggest trees possible with it, I dig dirt, load dirt and spread dirt with it. I can get a better road, smoother pad and flatter pasture with it then I can with the dozer.
If it was free, I'd tell a friend about it, but would not want it for that price. Maybe a differnet brand that you can get parts for would change my mind, but that one is screaming "problem" out to me.
Good luck,
Eddie
Sorry I didn't see this sooner and thanks for mentioning it on another thread. While I don't know anything first hand about International equipment, I do have an opinion on dozers in general. I hate them!!! I know that I have one and I've been able to do allot with mine, but I can't imagine a happier day then the day I sell it.
The good points are what it will do. It's truly amazing.
The bad is keeping it running. My days of wrenching and enjoying it seem like a very long time ago. Wrenching on the dozer is actually easier then on a car by the simple fact that it's just easier to get to everything. Of course, it's all heavier then anything on a car, but with lumber, jacks, chain and a comealong, you can do just about anything on it yourself.
There is a reason that big construction compaines sell their equipment after a certain amount of hours. Some sell at 2,000 hours, others at 4,000. The reason is that maintaining and repairing them means that they are not making money when not working. Breakdowns happen more often the older the machine gets.
If it's really what you want, then buy it with the knowledge that you will be wrenching on it. You might be able to do this in your work area and at your leasure, but you will also have those times when it's in the bottom of a ditch, or in a tangle of trees. Figuring out the problem is one thing, getting it off might take days.
My latest repair was the fan broke off of the bracket from my 8.3 Cummins engine. Not what anybody would think of as an unusal item. Unfortuantely, my dozer wasn't one of the more popular ones and the used a unique fan for it. New, that fan cost almost $1,100. But Case no longer supplies it, so the parts guys worked on figureing out what was close that I might be able to make work. Fortunately I found a used on online in Florida for $350 plus shipping. With the other parts that broke, this cost me $930 and two weeks of down time.
My pumps are made by Sundstrand, which is a very common, well known brand. When one of them went out, Case said a replacement pump was $20,000 I found a place to rebuild it for $2,000 and another $1,000 for the drive motor. This was a two month project.
You will need parts. I can't begin to gues what you will need, or when, but it will be an ongoing issue for the entire time that you own it. Filters and some other items might be found at the auto store. Napa and ABC are both good for those things on my tractors, so maybe they will have them for International too. I don't know.
Operating the machine is fun for the first day, maybe the second. But very soon, it become work. Then after awhile, it becomes torture. Spending the day on the dozer for me is a matter of knowing that I'll be rattled all evening. It's a full body work out and requires remaining fully allert mentaly at all times.
With what you have said that you want to do, and remembering your previous post about Silt and the track loader that you had in there, I think I understand where you are coming from.
Have you considered something with wheels? My favorite tractor is my backhoe. Its' comfortable to be on all day, it's sips fuel and I can accomlish just about anything with it short of mowing grass. If you really want to move as much material as possible, then a wheel loader would be a good option.
Tracks suck. There is some good that they offer, but only for short distances and in very rough terrain. Getting on the dozer takes an effort, lots of planning and a very specific need. Getting on the backhoe is almost natural. I haul the garbage with it, I take out the biggest trees possible with it, I dig dirt, load dirt and spread dirt with it. I can get a better road, smoother pad and flatter pasture with it then I can with the dozer.
If it was free, I'd tell a friend about it, but would not want it for that price. Maybe a differnet brand that you can get parts for would change my mind, but that one is screaming "problem" out to me.
Good luck,
Eddie
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jinman
Rest in Peace
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- Texas - Wise County - Sunset
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Eddie, thanks for your thorough response. There is nobody I know who has more experience than you with trying to get work done and keep older equipment going. You know exactly what it is to have a dozer or other eqiupment break down in the worst possible place. My luck would be similar. I'd probably have a breakdown in the bottom of my new pond just before the biggest rainstorm on record.
These things never seem to happen at a convenient time and place.What you say about rough riding is really right too. I sat on this thing so I could watch everything operate and it was an adventure. I found myself holding on with both hands. I wasn't in the operator's seat, but was sitting on the console beside it. Jolts come quickly and hard on tracked equipment. The higher up you sit, the more it is multiplied.
I too have lost my desire to wrench. Heck, I don't even have the tools to work on this beast. The nuts and bolts on this thing would just laugh at my little impact wrench. I'd need to invest in a whole new tool set just to do the least bit of maintenance.
I always balance the cost of equipment against the cost of hiring someone to do a job. Two of my planned ponds are $4k to $5k jobs and the big one is a $10k to $15k job. If I could buy a dozer for $20k and spend $5k in fuel and consumables, I'd break even if it broke down on the last day of the job (not likely). If I could buy a dozer for $50k, spend $10k in fuel and consumables, and then sell the dozer for $45k, I figure I'd be way ahead. That's probably the best way to go. Heck, I might even be able to hire an operator for some of the work.
So, I think you are right. I should just leave this deal alone and wait to look at another dozer or rubber tire loader. The only thing I don't like about the rubber tire loader is the lack of compaction. We'll see.
I do think this ol' International has a strong engine and the loader pins are tight. The engine's hourmeter shows 4435 hr. I'm just afraid that a drive sproket, track, or something in a planetary final drive would go and I'd be left with a rusting hulk to deal with. I've seen enough rusting hulks sitting on farms to know that it happens with some regularity.
Thanks Eddie. Your comments are the kind of thing that comes from a friend who doesn't pull punches when it comes to the truth. Your logic and advice is superb. I'm going to heed it and pull out of this deal.
EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
Hi Jim,
I paid $25,000 for mine and spent a year looking at machines. It's bigger then I thought I could get for the money, but also more of a project then I was wanting to buy. If I had the money, I'd of spent it on a newer machine. I don't think you can lose money on them if you buy with low enough hours on them, since you can sell it for about what you bought it for. It's those "deals" that end up costing you the money, and what I know all too well.
As for your comment on a wheel loader, or rubber tracked loader having a lack of compaction, I strongly disagree.
The advantage of tracks over wheels is the lower psi on the ground. My 40,000 dozer can cross wet soil that will bog down my 14,000 backoe. I can spread dirt with the dozer, drive over it several times with the tracks, and still sik on that soil with my backhoe. The tires concentrate all the weight to those four points. Even though the backhoe is three times lighter then the dozer, it sinks into the ground allot more then the dozer. More weight per square inch!!! For really compactings soil, like when I built my house, I added a full load of dirt into my front buckt and drove over the dirt after spreading it with the dozer. Then I added that dirt from the bucket to the low spots, back drag it, and drive over it some more with another load of dirt. Doing this, I had it so hard that pounding stakes into the ground for the forms was almost impossible. If there was a knot in the stake, it would break there before going into the ground.
Eddie
I paid $25,000 for mine and spent a year looking at machines. It's bigger then I thought I could get for the money, but also more of a project then I was wanting to buy. If I had the money, I'd of spent it on a newer machine. I don't think you can lose money on them if you buy with low enough hours on them, since you can sell it for about what you bought it for. It's those "deals" that end up costing you the money, and what I know all too well.
As for your comment on a wheel loader, or rubber tracked loader having a lack of compaction, I strongly disagree.
The advantage of tracks over wheels is the lower psi on the ground. My 40,000 dozer can cross wet soil that will bog down my 14,000 backoe. I can spread dirt with the dozer, drive over it several times with the tracks, and still sik on that soil with my backhoe. The tires concentrate all the weight to those four points. Even though the backhoe is three times lighter then the dozer, it sinks into the ground allot more then the dozer. More weight per square inch!!! For really compactings soil, like when I built my house, I added a full load of dirt into my front buckt and drove over the dirt after spreading it with the dozer. Then I added that dirt from the bucket to the low spots, back drag it, and drive over it some more with another load of dirt. Doing this, I had it so hard that pounding stakes into the ground for the forms was almost impossible. If there was a knot in the stake, it would break there before going into the ground.
Eddie
