Dead tractor - help!

[JoeL4330]

I do not believe you have a screen in the bottom of the tank ...it would make no sense since it is nearly impossible to get to such a screen in your tank ...the outlet is offset from the fill opening. As the shop manual for your 5030 (and my 4330) shows, no screen ...see attached jpg, which you might find generally useful.

If you read my earlier post, it described the easy way to empty the tank, filter the fuel ...put the fuel back in ...if you want to flush, repeat the process a few times.

Let me know if this helps.

 

[john_bud]

You did hit on one of the better ideas. (Your wife will not think so....)

Clamp the output line from the tank with a pliers and then route the fuel with a larger line into 5 gal fuel cans. (Get the ones back from Mr Borrowsalot). Bring the fuel into the house and warm it up to 70-75 degrees. Then while the wife is out shopping, put them into a tub of HOT water for a half hour. That will put the gunk into solution and add heat to dissolve any gunk still in the tank. Then pour back in to the tractor and motor on.


The issue you are having is that once the fuel crystallizes (that's actually what gelling is), it is hard to get it to dissolve. The anti-gel solutions are meant to keep the crystallization from occurring in the first place.

 

[JoeL4330]

I don't believe crystallization can be the culprit prior to the filter--would have to be the godzilla of crystalls to block the fuel outlet and hose, although it can crystallize in the filter pores--and, in this tractor series the fuel tank sits nicely above (and behind) the engine, in the engine compartment, so running the engine for a while heats the tank ...as I recall the post, it has been running, since the episode.

Serious gelling/crystallization is more likely when there is water in the fuel, but note that the fuel filter bowl is at the lowest point and water droplets should be visible there if there is serious undissolved water in the fuel.

Back to the original post, gelling is more likely when the filter bowl is full and the tractor gets fuel starved. If the filter bowl is empty and the tractor is starved for fuel the blockage is between the tank outlet and the filter bowl ...as was evidenced by the fact that when he removed the line from the tank at the bowl and blew into it, he dislodged a blockage and fuel poured down his sleeve (or, my sleeve, in my case).

You are right, though, about the difficulty of remelting the parafin once it has formed. Power Service makes a special product for this: Diesel 911, orange bottle, as do other brands.

The more important lesson, though, is the one from my first post: if the engine starts to stumble because of fuel starvation, shut down immediately so as not to exhaust completely the fuel in the injector lines. Check the fuel bowl (likely less than full) and then go into mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. ...wipe the fuel from your arm, or wherever, re-attach, restart and get somewhere more convenient.

Deft placement of the fuel can under the fuel bowl means that it is pretty easy to drain the tank by breaking the input line at the bowl and directing the flow, with the help of gravity, into your container. If the piece of crud is the right size, it will flow through the hose into the filter of the funnel you have providently placed on the fuel can. This might require one or more mouth-to-mouths.

If you study the diagram, it is unlikely that the blockage is in the tank, most likely somewhere in the hose, and with a few attempts, will flow through the hose into the filter-funnel for your inspection. If, however, it is just the right size and shape to block the tank outlet, and heavier (denser) than fuel, so it repeatedly settles there, that's a big problem. Removing the tank is a major pain. Not only the hood needs to be removed, as the poster suggested, but also the "dashboard" including the intelli-panel, etc.

 

[5030tinkerer]

Looks like I am back up and running. After it died the second time, I tried the mouth-to-mouth bit on the supply line again to get to a more convenient spot, but ran the battery down getting it to re-start. My neighbor was (once-again) kind enough to tow me back up to a more convenient spot. Interesting sidebar here: you cannot steer a Kubota Grand L5030 when being pulled backwards with the engine off - I had to periodically crank the engine to get the wheels to turn. At the very last of this tow, the tractor started and stayed running long enough for me to park it exactly where I wanted.

Not wanting to have a problem when the snow was falling, I drained the tank last night. Once empty, I poured FRESH fuel into the tank to help get out any remaining crud. I did not have a funnel with a screen available to me at the time, though noted NO globules of crud. I'll re-post here when I screen it, but it may be that I didn't have to go through the drain/re-fill process at all.

I did also go ahead and clean up the connections at the battery terminals and the battery chassis ground.

I left the air vent open all night and this morning it started, ran rough, died for two cycles and then just ran perfectly.

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE INCREDIBLE INFORMATION. LESSON LEARNED - NEVER run out of fuel, NEVER run untreated fuel in the winter, regardless of the supposed mix out of the pump. It just isn't worth it.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm not familiar with that unit, so must ask.

Does the fuel tank have a tap/valve threaded into the tank.. or is it a molded tank with a nipple simply connected to a hose.

If a tap / valve, they can have a fuel screen atop the valve.. NH units are like this.

soundguy

Looks like I am back up and running. After it died the second time, I tried the mouth-to-mouth bit on the supply line again to get to a more convenient spot, but ran the battery down getting it to re-start. My neighbor was (once-again) kind enough to tow me back up to a more convenient spot. Interesting sidebar here: you cannot steer a Kubota Grand L5030 when being pulled backwards with the engine off - I had to periodically crank the engine to get the wheels to turn. At the very last of this tow, the tractor started and stayed running long enough for me to park it exactly where I wanted.

Not wanting to have a problem when the snow was falling, I drained the tank last night. Once empty, I poured FRESH fuel into the tank to help get out any remaining crud. I did not have a funnel with a screen available to me at the time, though noted NO globules of crud. I'll re-post here when I screen it, but it may be that I didn't have to go through the drain/re-fill process at all.

I did also go ahead and clean up the connections at the battery terminals and the battery chassis ground.

I left the air vent open all night and this morning it started, ran rough, died for two cycles and then just ran perfectly.

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE INCREDIBLE INFORMATION. LESSON LEARNED - NEVER run out of fuel, NEVER run untreated fuel in the winter, regardless of the supposed mix out of the pump. It just isn't worth it.

 

[texasjohn]

5030tinkerer, congrats on getting back on the road...er.back in the saddle...er...reseated...we all learn the fuel lesson one time and never mess up again... for me thankfully it was hot weather... hope you still have all fingers, toes, nose, ears, other appendages after being out in all that zero degree weather.

Now, get back in that seat, crank up the RPMs, and turn up the heater, and go out there again before the tractor forgets how to work!

 

[john_bud]

2 points.

1 the steering is what is known as hydrostatic. The column has 2 jobs. The obvious one is to act like a valve and direct the pressurized fluid. But it is also a pump. When the engine is off, you can get the wheels to turn by turning the steering wheel. You have to turn it more than you normally do, but it does work.


Second point is that you are right on about not running the tank dry!!

jb

 

[5030tinkerer]

You know, it's interesting. Turning the wheel on the tractor (a lot!) when being pulled forward turned the wheels. Turning the wheels when being backward seemed to do nothing. I can't explain it, but it's what I experienced. Maybe I didn't turn far enough?

As far as the tank is concerned, it appears to be one big, molded unit with in an integrated nipple for the fuel supply and return lines.

Thanks again everyone for the help! It's good to be going again!

 

[JoeL4330]

I'm not familiar with that unit, so must ask.

Does the fuel tank have a tap/valve threaded into the tank.. or is it a molded tank with a nipple simply connected to a hose.

If a tap / valve, they can have a fuel screen atop the valve.. NH units are like this.

soundguy

I thought I had already posted a diagram, above, from the shop manual for his machine that shows no filter ...here are the two relevant pics from the parts manual ...I don't see a filter, and from experience with my 4330, I had a piece of crud come down the hose that would have been stopped by a screen if there were one.

 

[5030tinkerer]

This lack of screen has made me consider whether to augment the stock filtration system with an inline shutoff followed by an inline filter immediately following the tank. I suppose I am concerned about the longevity of such a filter considering that the drastically larger pleated stock filter is good for 400 hours by the book at least.