Computer on or off?

[arrow]

I still have issues with that.

based on principles of physics.. changes of states will cause some effect.. even if it is epsilon...

soundguy

Well, if we're talking computers, there has been specific statements made in regard to off and on aspects. Your physics statement can be applied to many things and situations
and some "changes of states" can be beneficial. As far as computers are concerned, I think the change of on to shutting down is beneficial in more ways than one as I have described. This company I presently work for has done testing for over 20 years in regard to energy usage and related items. That includes computers. The recommendations 20 years ago and those given today as far as shut down are different as machines 20 years ago were more tender to on-off fluctuation. Since 1998 to present ( or that which can be called modern generation computers) they have kept an array of computers that have been kept on and some on and off for periods of 4-8 years. There has been no viable differences in break down with either method with identical machines, however, there have been energy savings when shut-down occurs. If we keep on the subject, your present "issues" on modern day computers may be unnecessary but hey, to each his own.

 

[RobertN]

Apples are the most energy efficient with some of their units only drawing 10 watts in sleep.

That's not true. Mainstream X86 based machines can easily get below 3W for S3/S5(Sleep/Off) states. Seen many get below 2W.

Energy Star rated "green" systems are becoming the norm for schools and government in the US. Elsewhere, other governments are pushing even lower power rating, at least in Sleep and Off states. Some want less than 1W in the Off state, regardless of the system type.

On pretty much any system, even when you turn it off, you will have 1-2 watts of power concumptions. There is some small amount of active circuitry that senses when you press the power button.

The only way to go to no pwer use on the current stuff out there, is to pull the plug from the wall...

 

[Chuck52]

They turn them off. My employer is very good about employee suggestions and looking into anything that will save money, be good for the environment, good for the employees, etc... kinda old fashioned, yes?

I was thinking more along the lines of my employer....they just completely ignore my suggestion to eliminate those pesky students.

Chuck

 

[zimcocomp]

Thanks for the heads up. I've noticed anytime I open my case at home that I have a lot of dust build up. I'll make a point to clean it out more often.

Be sure to clean power supply input screen (internal) and the CPU heatsink. This is the two areas that cause the most problems.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

We have some lights in the house that have been on since 1/2005 with the exception of power outages. They are low wattage task lighting in the kitchen that we leave on since they make nice night lights. Maybe 100 watts total so at 10 cents a KWH it costs us a quarter a day for the light. Its worth 25 cents when we have to get up in the middle of the night to check on the kids or dog. Throw in another 25 cents for the power for the computer is a who cares in my total expenses. That extra 25 cents for the computer being on getting updates, backing up or recording TV shows is worth it.

Later,
Dan

Now you have to open the "everything else I leave on" can of worms. I wake up at night, and between the clock on the stove, clock on the under-counter radio my wife has, and the clock on the microwave, the room is half lit.

It seems I've got so many things running all the time. I've got my palm, my phone, my wife's phone, and my EMS radio charging every night. The laptop charges most nights. The TV, VCR, DVD Player, and Surround Sound System all have a small draw even when the power is off. My wife has two fish tanks with the aerators running all the time. This doesn't even begin to take into account the heater for the horses water trough, the heated pet bowl for my dog, and the 40 watt light bulb we use to keep the chicken water thawed.

When my computer is in "sleep" mode I'll bet I couldn't even tell on the meter compared to whatever else I have running.

 

[vsteel]

I still have issues with that.

based on principles of physics.. changes of states will cause some effect.. even if it is epsilon...

soundguy

You might as well be worrying about wearing out your hammer or wearing out the steering wheel from driving your tractor to much.

Now if you are using it all day and want to leave it on because of convince that is your prerogative. The decision shouldn't be based on computer longevity because that really isn't an issue anymore.

Pretty much just think of your favorite tractor theory that was true 75 years ago that doesn't apply any more for modern equipment. That is pretty much the same case.

 

[Soundguy]

Motor starts and stops will still be an issue... Untill we do to solid state hard drives ( coming very soon! ), the electromechanical portions of our machines will be effected the most by state changes.

speaking of solid state drives.. I do see there is at least one 'starter' grade laptop on the market with no hdd.. but rather has nonvol memory as a hdd.. etc. I bet that really takes a bite out of power usage.. that and not having a monster graphics card..

Most 'tractor' theories in use 75 ys ago are still true..

soundguy

 

[Iplayfarmer]

Doesn't the electromechanical portion of the hard drive come on and off all the time the computer is running anyway. I thought that "whir" noise when I started searching for something on the hard drive was the drive motor ramping up.

 

[arrow]

That's not true. Mainstream X86 based machines can easily get below 3W for S3/S5(Sleep/Off) states. Seen many get below 2W.

Energy Star rated "green" systems are becoming the norm for schools and government in the US. Elsewhere, other governments are pushing even lower power rating, at least in Sleep and Off states. Some want less than 1W in the Off state, regardless of the system type.

On pretty much any system, even when you turn it off, you will have 1-2 watts of power concumptions. There is some small amount of active circuitry that senses when you press the power button.

The only way to go to no pwer use on the current stuff out there, is to pull the plug from the wall...

This testing was not done with just the microprocessor. It was with the monitor as well. It would also depend on the residual lighting and type used in the frame or tower and the design of such. Also, my information goes back several months and as a result there can very well be a new "sleep" king on the market. The Mx86 microarchitecture in itself has had changes going from Yonah to Wolfdale in relatively short order which can further help change info. Thanks for the heads up at any rate.

 

[Soundguy]

Doesn't the electromechanical portion of the hard drive come on and off all the time the computer is running anyway. I thought that "whir" noise when I started searching for something on the hard drive was the drive motor ramping up.

I know cd's / dvd's spin up when needed.. I'm under the impression that unless power management shuts the HDD drive down.. that it stays spinning under normal circumstances.

And yes.. over the years.. I've repalced tons more cd's than HDD's I attribute that in part to the nature of their operation.. same with the old FD's

soundguy

 

[RobertN]

This testing was not done with just the microprocessor. It was with the monitor as well. It would also depend on the residual lighting and type used in the frame or tower and the design of such. Also, my information goes back several months and as a result there can very well be a new "sleep" king on the market. The Mx86 microarchitecture in itself has had changes going from Yonah to Wolfdale in relatively short order which can further help change info. Thanks for the heads up at any rate.

EPA E-Star V4.0 and V5.0 requirements are for system level; it does not include the monitor.

If you are trying to conserve power, or meet E-Star, then you do not want residual lighting, tower lighting etc.

Monitors themselves have to meet thier own E-Star ratings.

 

[vsteel]

Motor starts and stops will still be an issue... Untill we do to solid state hard drives ( coming very soon! ), the electromechanical portions of our machines will be effected the most by state changes.

Most 'tractor' theories in use 75 ys ago are still true..

soundguy

Sure motor start and stops cause wear, but the point is that the number is so ridiculously high its silly to worry about it. Why not worry about the number of years left in the sun's life?

I also hate to tell you NAND memory (as used in SSD drives) wears out. Each block of memory can only be used so many times. So just using your computer will cause it to wear. DRAM doesn't have the same restriction and doesn't wear out in the same manor, it will work until the chip just dies for another reason. NAND gets say 100K uses out of a block and then its done.

I am sure there are a lot of tractor theories that are still true, but the point being, there are some which don't hold true anymore. A 10 year old computer theory is the same as a 75 to 100 year old tractor theory.

 

[Soundguy]

I'm betting tractor theory is holding up way better than computer theory... ground breaking basic changes in tractor technology since 39 haven't been to vast.. whereas in the electroninc industry.. you can count on new ideas every 18 months or so...

soundguy

 

[SnowRidge]

Doesn't the electromechanical portion of the hard drive come on and off all the time the computer is running anyway. I thought that "whir" noise when I started searching for something on the hard drive was the drive motor ramping up.

Hard drives can be set to spin down after a time out period, but your machine may or may not be doing that. It is more likely that it came set up that way if it is a portable. Some drives also park their heads after a time out, even if they don't spin down. In some cases, you can hear the parking/unparking as it happens.

 

[arrow]

EPA E-Star V4.0 and V5.0 requirements are for system level; it does not include the monitor.

If you are trying to conserve power, or meet E-Star, then you do not want residual lighting, tower lighting etc.

Monitors themselves have to meet thier own E-Star ratings.

Was never making reference to Energy Star requirements but actual wattage testing on whole computers as they would be set up on someone's desk. What I had said pertinent to computer sleep model may not be true as a result of time passing but I do regret you having the need to tell me "that's not true" as if I was attempting to be lying about it. I give info to the best of my ability and if you took exception to it because it was false or you felt it was false , perhaps it could of been couched in a different way such as "What exactly was tested and how was it tested". and continued with something like "my info relative to computer sleep wattage is different" or something to the effect because in one point in near time, it was most certainly true. This is not a game of "gotcha you're wrong" but a sharing of info. I'll admit when I'm wrong as I am currently doing. Now to stay on the subject, your contribution indeed made me delve into the aspect further. Based on my company's info, Apple is no longer the sleep king in desk top computers. That honor now goes to the Dell Optiflex. I stand corrected.

 

[zimcocomp]

Well it seems we're talking about power consumption. If this is your concern, look around you at the electronic device especially those turned on and off with a remote. You know if you can turn something on with a remote it is already partially powered up. I looked at my surround sound and TV installation alone and I could buy a UPS if I turned all off completely (unplugged) when not in use. If we could all unplug these things tere would be a nice reduction in power consumption.
Now I am working on the best way to charge the UPS battery with solar energy.

 

[RobertN]

Well, I didn't mean it that way.

My expierience is based on US EPA E*4.0.

You were not wrong in that you based on a different test parameters. In the original reply I directly referenced E*, the base of my background. If that Apple or Dell system has an energy star compliant sticker on it, then it was tested as a chassis/mb/cpu/ram/hd/optical drive/video card. The monitor would be tested seperately and certified.

I am unsure of any industry standard for testing a system/monitor/accessories.

Was never making reference to Energy Star requirements but actual wattage testing on whole computers as they would be set up on someone's desk. What I had said pertinent to computer sleep model may not be true as a result of time passing but I do regret you having the need to tell me "that's not true" as if I was attempting to be lying about it. I give info to the best of my ability and if you took exception to it because it was false or you felt it was false , perhaps it could of been couched in a different way such as "What exactly was tested and how was it tested". and continued with something like "my info relative to computer sleep wattage is different" or something to the effect because in one point in near time, it was most certainly true. This is not a game of "gotcha you're wrong" but a sharing of info. I'll admit when I'm wrong as I am currently doing. Now to stay on the subject, your contribution indeed made me delve into the aspect further. Based on my company's info, Apple is no longer the sleep king in desk top computers. That honor now goes to the Dell Optiflex. I stand corrected.

 

[arrow]

Well, I didn't mean it that way.

My expierience is based on US EPA E*4.0.

You were not wrong in that you based on a different test parameters. In the original reply I directly referenced E*, the base of my background. If that Apple or Dell system has an energy star compliant sticker on it, then it was tested as a chassis/mb/cpu/ram/hd/optical drive/video card. The monitor would be tested seperately and certified.

I am unsure of any industry standard for testing a system/monitor/accessories.

This testing was not an industry standards based test. As I earlier stated, my company has kept records and has done research on power consumption in relation to real use. Part of my job as an energy conservation analyst is to presnt information to individuals, companies and municipal districts as they apply to actual use. This takes in anything from computers to primary pumps in buildings and everything in between. Energy Star criteria are parameters set as benchmarks for compliance and takes in entities from products to building structure and mechanicals and compliance criterias certainly need standards based assessment. Even so, Your statement did encourage me to get real time informed or as close to real time as possible when talking about computers. Thank you.

 

[Bird]

I'm another one who never turns the computer off, except in a power outage. I do have a UPS, but wouldn't expect it to last long with no power. And when we went on a week's vacation, I shut the computer off while we were gone in July.

I said I never shut my computer down unless I'm going to be gone awhile, so I shut everything down Monday night (1/5/09), and left here about 3:20 a.m. Tuesday morning to go fishing with my brothers on the Texas coast. I didn't get back until last night, so the computer wasn't turned on until this morning. I got a black and white screen that said Windows couldn't start and gave me a couple of options to try again or see if it could "repair" the problem (which was the "recommended" option), so I did that. After quite awhile of trying to "repair" Windows, it finally said it couldn't fix it. However, Windows was then working. But I also got a warning that my virus protection was turned off and gave me some options, one of which was to run "Live Update" with Norton, which I did. After a great deal of downloading, installing, etc., it also gave me another warning that there was another problem, but then everything seems to have started working normally.

Of course, there was 551+ new posts on TBN since my last visit. But only 58 e-mails.

And the other good news is that the weather was great and the fishing was better than expected at Port Aransas. We were fishing for Sheepshead with a minimum legal length of 14". We had lots of fun with catch and release of dozens of Sheepshead between 12 and 14", a number of "trash fish" (i.e., piggy perch, hardhead catfish, and a couple of other unknown things). One of my brothers even caught a sea turtle, quite by accident; had it foul hooked in one flipper. But we did get to fillet 28 legal fish (14" to 16").