Is this acceptable quality on a brand new Kubota?

[copperhead1967]

What it boils down to is hard earned bucks spent for sub-quality products. Seems to be the norm anymore. I guess every generation goes thru this but it's to the point if you don't buy the "premium" hicky-do your buying a disposable product. The only problem here is Kubota's are supposed to be a premium product and tractors aren't disposable. I've been around this board long enough to learn my BX22 may have had a few design flaws but is a way better machine than what Kubota is building the past few years.
The pricing hasn't increased much, so they have to cut what goes into the machine.

 

[Charlton John]

What it boils down to is hard earned bucks spent for sub-quality products. Seems to be the norm anymore. I guess every generation goes thru this but it's to the point if you don't buy the "premium" hicky-do your buying a disposable product. The only problem here is Kubota's are supposed to be a premium product and tractors aren't disposable. I've been around this board long enough to learn my BX22 may have had a few design flaws but is a way better machine than what Kubota is building the past few years.
The pricing hasn't increased much, so they have to cut what goes into the machine.

somewhat agree, cant really really comment on any other machine than mine but the machine itself and the new series 2x20 is a very fine machine it just appears these guys had drunk welders working that day

 

[hottubbrad]

Ultimately, you have to hold the dealer responsible. They shouldn't deliver crappy product, no matter what the factory delivers to their door. Ever heard of a pre-delivery inspection??

Ask for the right product or get a refund... Bottom line. There are many other dealers to buy from.

 

[canoetrpr]

In my opinion, pre-delivery inspections have just become a way to earn an extra bit of margin on sales.

Of the last two new cars and one new tractor, I don't think any one of them had a real pre-delivery inspection really done. Heck I was even delivered the wrong rotary cutter with my tractor - it was a foot shorter than the one I ordered and had a different serial number from the one on my invoice. When I finally convinced the dealer that it was the wrong one - which took comparing the serial numbers and pointing out the difference - the one I did get didn't have the slip clutch that it should have. It was a year in that I noticed that and so I saved myself the aggravation on dealing with the dealer.

Everybody tells you here how important it is to find yourself a good dealer. The problem is, it can be next to impossible to know, until you have dealt with them and run into a few issues that they have had to resolve.

 

[bandit67]

In my opinion, pre-delivery inspections have just become a way to earn an extra bit of margin on sales.

Of the last two new cars and one new tractor, I don't think any one of them had a real pre-delivery inspection really done. Heck I was even delivered the wrong rotary cutter with my tractor - it was a foot shorter than the one I ordered and had a different serial number from the one on my invoice. When I finally convinced the dealer that it was the wrong one - which took comparing the serial numbers and pointing out the difference - the one I did get didn't have the slip clutch that it should have. It was a year in that I noticed that and so I saved myself the aggravation on dealing with the dealer.

Everybody tells you here how important it is to find yourself a good dealer. The problem is, it can be next to impossible to know, until you have dealt with them and run into a few issues that they have had to resolve.

Well, this pretty well sums up my argument for not always having to go with a local dealer, and that sometimes, you can buy from a dealer that has to ship the product to you. There are a few dealers on TBN that ship machines to areas outside their immediate region, and I have yet to hear anyone complaining about their service, delivery, products, etc. Yet I read constantly about local dealers dropping the ball and having dissatisfied customers.

Think about the expense to that long distance dealer if they ship a product out of state, and they did a lousy job on the pre-delivery inspection, or delivered the wrong product, etc. Those dealers have to pay extra attention to the details, or their profit margin gets completely eaten up by being forced to pay for shipping back and forth until they get everything right.

The local dealers don't have as much at stake when they are dealing with a sale 20 miles away, so they can get away with lousy pre-delivery inspections, because getting the issues resolved aren't going to cost them as much.

Yes, folks here argue about the service part of it, but there are a lot of local dealers that only take good care of the larger contractors that buy a lot of equipment from them, leaving the individual homeowners and 'weekend warriors' to fend for themselves, or live with their machine being down for 3-4 weeks while they take care of the bigger equipment owners. What about a repair that's too big for the average 'joe' to deal with? Well, then you get it to a local dealer to fix when they can, but as I said, it's no different whether you bought from them or not, when you only buy one machine from them every 5, 10, 15, or more years.

And contrary to what I've read on TBN, I have yet to run across a service department that really cares where the machine came from. They know that private sales are a big thing, and that their own dealership sales department can't always come through with a new machine when a customer needs or wants it, so customers do what they need to do to get the machine. Around here, the service depts seem to make enough on their own that the sales profit doesn't need to be figured into the equation as to whether or not they'll work on a machine. Maybe some of us are more fortunate than others with regards to the 'we won't service a machine that wasn't bought from this dealership' motto.

Anyway, back to the original point - if more of the local dealers had more potential cost at stake, like the dealers that ship long distance do, then maybe they'd pay more attention to the details during the pre-delivery inspections, and not allow sub-standard products to be delivered to the customer.

 

[Bumble]

As some of you know from my other posts, I recently traded in my 5 yr old BX2230 for a new BX1860. This machine was not on the dealer floor or lot, but was ordered and shipped from a Kubota Warehouse and arrived with zero hrs (or just run in a bit). Part of my deal to save some money required me to deliver my old tractor and pick up my new one. We made the exchange and I gave my machine a quick 1-2 minute inspection, but in hind sight that was wrong and I should have spent more time checking it over.

Now, I may be an overly picky buyer, but hey, when I spend big money on something, I expect it to be perfect and that I plan to put the first scratches on it.

Once I got it home, I was able to get a close up look at everything and began to notice little things that kinda ticked me off.

-Slow moving vehicle sign flew off on the way home.....I did not know it wasn't bolted on, but only in a slide in bracket....nobody told me this.

-Excessive grease on the zerks and pivots....no biggie, I cleaned it off and was just glad everything was greased, although done sloppy.

-Small scratch on the hood....deep enough it won't buff out....ok, no biggie, but still its new!!

-Small scratch on one of the rear wheels...once again, I can live with this, but come on!

-Many more small-medium scratches on one of the spare wheels (turfs mounted on). This time bad enough I want the wheel replaced.

-Weld splatter on the front grill guard that wasn't cleaned up before paint....just sloppy, no big deal, I can live with it.

-And my biggest complaint......nasty ugly welds all over the loader. My old machine had nice smooth beads, (the way it should be) and this new one looks like amateur work. I happen to have been a pretty savvy welder in the past, and this is just flat out crappy workmanship.

I wrote this all up in a polite, professional email to my dealer salesman, who had been excellent to deal with during this transaction so far....

After 5 days with no reply, I called him today......

All he had to say was....

-He spoke to the regional Kubota rep and the rep plans to visit the factory and make them aware of the quality concerns....that's it....nothing for me.....but hopefully better quality for future tractor buyers.

-They will send me a can of spray paint for my beat up wheel.......which I think is pathetic and there should have been no hesitation to swap out the wheel for a new one. In my opinion, the shop guys most likely did this with careless use of a tire iron when the tires were filled. My dealer salesman just makes excuses about how the wheels are shipped loose and can get scratched.....

Yea, so what! I don't care how it happened, I paid for a brand new scratch free unit..

My old machine was built in Japan, my new one in Georgia....think this has anything to do with the weld quality??

I know some will say these are petty nit picky concerns, and a tractor is meant to be worked....I agree to a small extent, but I also take extremely good care of my stuff, most looks like new, and although I work my machines, I keep them looking like new.

Other then these few items, this is a fine machine and I am sure I will be happy with its performance.

I have the name and number of the Kubota rep and plan to call, but I was wondering what you guys thought of my complaints/concerns?

I'll try and post a few pics, but it may be hard to see from a picture.

You nailed it in your first post. You said you were an overly picky buyer, but failed to properly inspect the merchandise before taking delivery. While I can see the validity of some of your complaints, (poor welds, splatter) some others, (SMV sign, wheel scratches) should have been caught by the dealer, or yourself, and rectified. I have an L4330, loader, BH-90 backhoe, box blade and angle/tilt rear blade. I spent the better part of an hour going over my tractor upon delivery, in the rain and fog. I too found grease on the zerks, and 1 scratch on the backside of a wheel. The grease was left puposely, so that I would know it had been lubed, the tech and salesman went over every inch of the tractor and accessories before I signed the papers. So really, If you're not happy with your tractor's apperance, the only person to blame is you. I hope you get what you want, or at least deserve.

 

[Harvest Moon]

No way Bumble, you could go over your tractor for a month and not examine every part for quality of workmanship and you'd have to take it apart to see most of it.

Kubota has built a reputation and a standard that people now expect of them. This looks like an isolated case of sub Kubota workmanship. The buyer has a right to expect a Kubota quality weld when he buys a Kubota.

Same as the buyer has a right to expect a Kubota quality machined crankshaft.

Unless you look at it like a home, most banks require a home inspector if you buy a home. Why? Because people buying homes don't know everything there is to look for or have time to learn and there are usually no warranties on the workmanship in a home. Maybe, BANDAMAN should have hired a tractor inspector at the request of Kubota finance?

Or maybe Bumble is right but it's a sad world where all standards, pride and dignity have died. So many companies get away with treating the customer with a scr*w you I've already got your money attitude that few seem to have a competitive incentive to do better.

I say give this man a new loader, one with Kubota's best welds to make up for his frustration and inconvenience.

 

[EE_Bota]

Harvest Moon is right.
I will boil it down simply: The buyers job is to earn the money, and make the purchase decision. The buyer is not in charge of quality control.

The reason those of us who are quality minded go over a piece of equipment with a fine tooth comb is because we have either been cheated, or know someone who has been cheated. It is not our job, and we don't have to do it to preserve our rights. We do it because we want to assure we are getting expected value for our hard earned money. The result of the inspection should be a pleasant feeling of having a wise purchase. We are looking for that feeling, and the avoidance simple human error.

This buyer is the type to inspect his equipment. He gave ample reason why he did not in this case. He need not have given any reason. It is not his job, nor is it his responsibility to "inspect quality into" his purchase.

Kubota is responsible for the loader problem, and the dealer is responsible as well. The dealer is solely responsible for all the other issues reported.

The paint should have been intact on the entire tractor, every painted surface. A touch of grease on the tip of the zerk is fine by me, others may have a different opinion. However, loads of grease all around the zerk is a problem...it means most likely some restriction in the joint such that the gun cannot grease it easily, so back pressure causes it to spill around the gun seal. I have a zerk on my MMM mower that has that problem on the idler arm pivot joint. It's not a correct circumstance, and I am going to fix it.

People have suggested he should be nice, or else he is unlikely to get any help. Heck guys...we should all be nice, professional, etc. No need to be otherwise. But still, I don't like the implication. "If you complain about the wheel scratch, they might not take you seriously about the loader." That burns me a bit.

Some years I buy millions of equipment at work. Retaining payment until satisfied is a big key to success, but in the times that is not possible, we call our nice, professional, etc. lawyers.

 

[WaxMan]

So What the buyer didn't notice till he got home ?? What difference does that make. The tractor welds did not happen on the way home. it's not like a big scratch down the hood where the dealer says it wasn't like that when you bought it, the customer did it.
What's the dealers argument, should have told me about it before you paid me ? bull
He didn't buy the tractor used off someone's front lawn. Someone else said buyer beware..what a joke. You shouldn't have to crawl all over a brand new tractor at the dealers for an hour how ridiculous .
The dealer should say after every purchase , any problems at all once you get it home give me a call.

 

[sixdogs]

Kubota has built a reputation and a standard that people now expect of them. This looks like an isolated case of sub Kubota workmanship.

I'm not a lawyer but your quote is an important one because I believe what has become the standard through past experience can become the legal standard for a future purchase. The prior delivery standard becomes the expected norm. I think they call it "estoppel."
I am not an attorney but if a buyer has a reasonable expectation of a product based on past delivery of that product, it might become a part of the unwritten contract. I mean if a Kubota tractor shows up painted green you would have an issue because they set a standard of expectation by always delivering orange tractors.

If the weld standard is not up to snuff and a reading of welding quality standards says you got the shaft, find a welding instructor or two or three that agrees with you and get it in writing. Small claims court might be worth a look if you are truly not happy and the welds are truly sub-standard. It depends on your resolve and if the dollar limit of small claims court covers your $$ request. Surely Kubota doesn't want to deal with this issue in small claims court.
If you want to push this you could do your homework to make an ironclad, irrefutable case and then call higher up the food chain at Kubota and share the conclusion of your findings and what you want to be happy. You could even have an attorney write a letter based on your efforts for maybe $100.
You present a winnable arguement to Kubota and I'll bet they want nothing to do with the hassle. They are an excellent company with high business paractice standards and won't fight something they likely can't win. They might not even be aware of this problem.
As well, you could also ask the dealer to swap this loader with a new one --and give him $200 or so and see what he says. Might get rid of the problem and would also show the small claims court you tried to resolve things.
Just my two cents here.