Pushing over trees

[BrentD]

Ok, this is a bit of a technique question...

I have a 45hp Mitsubishi BD2G dozer and have some dead Blackjack trees I need to push over. The drought this summer was really hard on the trees in my area and we've lost bunch. I've pushed over a bunch of dead willow trees with the dozer and didn't have any problems at all, but willow roots are shallow compared to the Blackjack trees.

To complicate matters, all the trees I need to push over are in locations that are barely accessible to the dozer. I can get to them from only one angle and don't have more than about 40 feet to maneuver behind me.

I've tried digging right up to the trunk as far down as I can go with the limited space, and these trees won't budge. It's like they're made of solid rock or something. We'd just cut them down and pull the stumps out later, but we dulled 3 chainsaw blades trying to cut down 1 of the trees. I've never dealt with wood that is this hard before. Our land is very sandy and it's almost like these trees pull the sand up into their trunks and partially petrify while they're still alive.

Any ideas how to go about this? I wish I had a back-hoe available, I'd trench around the tree and cut the roots that way.

 

[Vern2]

If you do cut them down, leave a tall stump for future removal. Sorry, can't help anymore.

Vern

 

[Coyote machine]

dynamite?

 

[beenthere]

Take it for what it is worth, but pushing dead trees is NOT a good idea, unless you have a solid canopy over your head.
Dead trees have a propensity for the dead top to break and fall back on the side being pushed. A neighbor (couple miles away) died from a dead top that dropped on his head, just a few weeks ago. I've had some close calls, and thought the dead tree was even leaning away from me. I will not push any more over. I will cut them with a chainsaw.

 

[THE GROUCH]

Id have to agree with been there. spend the time to cut the trees for safety sake. I have seen carbide tipped saw chain in the past ,dont know the price but I have seen it on new stihl "rescue" type saws and depending on how much cutting you have to do it may be worth picking up a chain.

 

[brin]

Here in Georgia we call dead trees " Widow Makers " to anyone who tries to push them over..bad habit of breaking half way up and falling straight down on you...when I first got my JD 450 crawler..I had a couple of close calls before I was told about the widow makers..please don't try it ..best to cut and leave a high stump and then push the stumps over...Life is short enough...

 

[LD1]

Leverage is always your friend. Is there any way you can get a cable/chain up as high as you can and pull them over.

Just make sure the cable is longer than the tree so you can get far enough away as to nnot pull it onto yourself

 

[Treemonkey1000]

As mentioned in other post pushing dead tree's over can get you hurt. If those tree's are like the cottonwood they will suck up sand. What I would do is cut as high as you can safely to leave yourself something to push or pull with. The amount of sand should decrease higher up. Chains are cheap and easy to sharpen versus damaged dozers or people.

 

[Trails2004]

It is difficult to push over a tree with a dozer- if you were using a FEL you could have more leverage pushing with the loader raised and pushing against the tree.

What we have done in the past is use a large block and tackle chained to a tree that is roughly 20-45 degrees away from the the tree you wish to push over. Run a large cable through the Block and Tackle and attach to the dozer and pull the tree down with the cable. Place both the block and tackle and cable at least 10 feet above ground level = better leverage.

If the area is difficult to get to with a dozer - this maybe an alternate method of tree removal- given you have enough cable

 

[kthompson]

It might be possible but it sure does not seem possible a tree could pull dirt or sand up into itself as it does water. If so is there any value to such wood, if so how do they cut it? If the trees are dead then you probably are not keeping enough oil on the chain to protect it from cutting dry wood. A chain saw depends on some sap bining in the tree.

 

[BrentD]

When these stupid black-jacks die if you wait a month or so, they will drop all of their limbs even with the trunk. They don't get all that tall either... Usually only 15-20 feet, sometimes 30 at the most. What I'm currently trying to push over are some roughly 20' tall trunks totally devoid of limbs. Even if there are a few large limbs left, ramming the tree once with the dozer will usually bring them all down at once. Not always the safest way to handle things, but if you know roughly what to expect you can plan for it. So far I've de-limbed 3 of the trees this way and haven't taken a single hit on the dozer.

As for using a chain saw.... Once we get past the bark the saw blade starts throwing sparks withing a few seconds, like the blade is hitting rock. We've talked to several professional tree people in the area, and as soon as they find out we're asking about BlackJack the price for removal doubles. One of the guys has said he loves the way is smells when it's burned in a fireplace, but actually cutting the wood is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[J35]

It might be possible but it sure does not seem possible a tree could pull dirt or sand up into itself as it does water. If so is there any value to such wood, if so how do they cut it? If the trees are dead then you probably are not keeping enough oil on the chain to protect it from cutting dry wood. A chain saw depends on some sap bining in the tree.

I always figured the sand was from the wind as the tree grows. Kind of like how a tree will grow around a wire.

Mesquites in the SW are full of sand, hard on chains, but I never met one I cound'nt cut, seen plenty of sparks in the evening while felling.

Have fun

 

[carpenter383]

It is difficult to push over a tree with a dozer- if you were using a FEL you could have more leverage pushing with the loader raised and pushing against the tree.

What we have done in the past is use a large block and tackle chained to a tree that is roughly 20-45 degrees away from the the tree you wish to push over. Run a large cable through the Block and Tackle and attach to the dozer and pull the tree down with the cable. Place both the block and tackle and cable at least 10 feet above ground level = better leverage.

If the area is difficult to get to with a dozer - this maybe an alternate method of tree removal- given you have enough cable

This is very similar to what I was gonna say.
I'll ask you this: if you had twice the pulling power that you currently have do you think you could pull the tree down?
If so then you can get it by hooking a snatch block as high as possible on the dead blackjack, run a cable through the snatch block with one end hooked to the dozer and the other end to a tree as close to the dozer as possible. (so the cables are running parallel) This will double your pulling power. Be sure to use a good heavy cable and snatch block! For added saftey you could lay a heavy blanket on the cable while pulling. Good luck!

 

[JoelD]

Rent and excavator and make short work of the trees.

I can rent a 28K machine for 500 delivered for 10 hours over the course of a weekend (providing they've got a machine kicking around which they have each time I've asked).

An excavator will make very quick work of those trees.

Not sure how to cut them other than have a sharpener file handy, ignore the sparks and go to town. Just make sure the saw's reservoir is full of oil.

Good luck,
Joel

 

[D7E]

It takes a big dozer to push a decent tree over.....A 2ft oak tree can make my CAT D7 look embarrassing in some good gumbo..!

 

[Western]

Unless it's for firewood you could leave them to the woodpeckers and such. I have several I have left standing as long as they are not in an area where people frequent. Attracts allot of different bird types to our place.

 

[DJ54]

Not familiar with that type of tree, but sounds like it may have a tap root. Like D7E said, Oaks can be tough, and they do have a tap root...

If you're going to fell the trees, and you're limited to felling space. Here is an easy way to tell if you have enough room to let it fall.

Use an ordinary yardstick. Hold it at arms length, at the center of the yardstick. Sight the tree, from very top, to the ground, within the length of the yardstick. Just keep backing up, or stepping forward until you get to that point.

When you reach that point, that is the height of the tree, usually within 3 feet. Being in a low spot, or on a knob will make a difference.

You may want to experiment first with one in a little more open space, and see where it ends up.

 

[tlbuser]

Maybe the right stuff to help out.
Carbide Chain Designs-- Longest lasting chainsaw chain! Rapco Industries

 

[MossRoad]

Ha! I thought you were kidding about dulling chainsaws, so I googled blackjack tree.
Quercus marilandica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scroll down to the USES area. The first thing is says is it will dull chainsaws!

Sounds like a tough customer.

 

[Kenneth in Texas]

forget the chainsaw, the dozer, the fel, the excavator, situations like these means a heavy double edged AXE