At Home In The Woods

   / At Home In The Woods #931  
Just wondering if you will have trouble finding a CM willing to come on in the middle of the build? I'm thinking I would be hesitant to step into a situation where I may have to fix someone else's work, but attributed to me. Does that make sense?

MK160
 
   / At Home In The Woods #932  
Hey Obed,

I spent ten years working for a general contractor building wood structure three and four story hotels, using trusses exactly like the ones you have in your house. We always required the framer to layout the trusses, including adjusting locations so that chases would work corectly, and WE ( the GC ) would check the layout.

Your CM is another word for GC, just different size of projects. The CM should be responsible to check that things are laid out properly, since he was also the framer, perhaps he felt he did not need to double check?

I think you are totally in the right to expect him to build to the plans, using commonly accepted building practices ( proper top plate tie in ).

Good decision to cut ties.

Trusses can be moved, it is a pain in the you know what, but with wedges and a sledge it can be done...i have done it myself. :mad:

expect it to be expensive if you want them moved it can take a full day for a couple of guys to move one truss. if you are going to do it, do it now before any more progress is made on the house. it will only be more difficult with more things in the way later. :mad::mad::mad:

good luck finding a new CM, and as said earlier make sure they are willing to work with your wife!!!

Rick
 
   / At Home In The Woods #933  
Obed,

What's done is done and I admire your decision to move forward without your original CM.

In the interview process, be sure to walk through the house with the potential GC and let him point out the things HE sees. Telling him everything that you know of can come later, but what you want is to hire a guy who can spot a problem and figure out how to fix it. YOU need to take notes of what each of them say.

Sadly, personality is what gets most of us hired. I always appreciate the work, but wonder about my clients who hire me because I'm a nice guy and we had a nice first meeting. Interviewing at least five contractors is a very smart move, but don't limit yourself to just five. If it takes 20, then that's just what it takes.

You are in an awkward position because you need a contractor that can identify problems and correct them before moving forward. This isn't normal for most new home builders. If they are good, it's done right the first time and they never have to go back and redo the basics. Remodelers, like myself, do this all the time, but on a smaller scale. I wouldn't hire me for this job, and I wouldn't hire most new home builders for it either.

With the knowledge that the CM cut corners, didn't pay attention to the plans and is of questionable competence, I would also suggest hiring an engineer to take a look at what was done. If not that, bring out the archetect who drew up your plans to see if they can spot anything that you and the contractors that you bring in there might have missed. Right now is the time to correct any issues, and get it right. It sucks that you have to waste money on doing things twice, and undoing what's already done, but it will be so much cheaper to do it now then in ten years when it might become a very expensive issue.

Most everything can be cut out and moved with a sawzall. I have at least a dozen, long metal cutting blades, in my bag of blades just to cut nails in between the lumber and still have the lumber in perfect condition. On a small scale, it's fast and easy to do.

Again, identify every single issue that needs to be fixed. Be open to what everyone has to say, and hire the guy who impresses you the most. Be careful of salesmen, and try to talk to the guy who will actually be there. Some contractors are just a phone and a list of people they hire to do the work. Those are the guys who make the big money because they know all the best people and get the job done. They are also the ones who have the biggest problems and give the rest of us such a bad name. Finding the good one from the bad one is a real challenge. Then there is the guy who does the work himself and is on site every day. This is how I work, and what I'd recomend. Limit the number of people that you have to deal with, and make sure you have direct contact with whoever you hire.

I'm sorry that you have had to go through this, but want to thank you for being so open with it and sharing with all of us. I know it's been hard to hear some of our ctitisisms, but we're here for you and want you to end up with the best house possible.

Good luck,
Eddie
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#934  
One of the things that helps you maintain control is a larger number of small draws instead of a small number of large draws.
The draw schedule was a major factor that caused us to keep the CM as long as we did. Our contract had us paying him (labor only) in 3 equal payments.
1. After the footers were poured.
2. After the framing was completed. I would estimate that the framing would occupy 90% of the CM's effort with 10% going to other tasks he was supposed to perform.
3. After completion of drying in the house

Once the footers were poured and the first draw was paid, the CM had all the advantage. We would lose a large chunk of money for not much work if we let him go at that time. It was after we had paid him the first draw that I started getting hints that his competancy and quality of work might have some issues. But we were hesitant to get rid of him because we hadn't yet gotten much work for our money.

If I had it to do over again, I would not have given him such a large draw near the beginning. I would have made smaller payments so that I could let him go if needed without losing a large sum of money. I know a lot of contractors will ask for a large chunk up front. However, in today's slow economy, I'm thinking that issue could be negotiated.

Toward the end, we had the advantage because most of the house had been framed and he had not received a payment in a while. We could have gotten rid of him, paid him what we felt he had earned minus our costs to fix his mistakes. The only thing he could have done would have been to put a lien on our house and then sue us for extra payment (i.e. the full 2nd and 3rd draws).

According to our attorney, once the CM finished the framing, we could pay him the 2nd draw and would not legally owe him any other money. So we had that option and could have used that leverage if needed. We have required the subs to sign lien release waivers when we paid them that stated that all work performed and materials used to-date were paid in full. I'm fairly confident that we could have paid the CM the 2nd draw and gotten him to sign the waiver before letting him know we wanted to terminate the contract. He had already signed a waiver for the 1st draw. We could have then fired him without paying anything extra and it would have been very difficult for him to collect any more from us.

His only option for getting any more money from us would have been to put a lien on our house and bring suit against us for non-payment within 12 months. If he didn't file suit within the 1st 12 months, he would not be able to file suit against us for non-payment later. Although he wouldn't have much legal standing to file the lien, it would still be easy to do and would require us to sue him to have the lien released.

In our situation, filing a lien against us wouldn't affect us. The attorney said that most title companies ignore liens older than 3 years. If the CM filed a lien but didn't follow up with a lawsuit within 12 months, he would lose the right to bring the suit to court and would have no legal way to collect. So the CM would have to file a lawsuit within 12 months if he wanted to collect more money (i.e. the 3rd draw).

Our attorney said that if we had to go to court, it would cost us $10,000 in legal fees and that the best thing for us to do would be to sit down with the CM and work out an agreement to end the contract. If we paid the 2nd draw and got the lien release signed before firing him, it might not appear above board and might encourage the CM to fight us. So we followed the attorney's advice. While I believe it is unlikely that the CM would go to the effort to take us to court, it seemed best to just try to cleanly end things now than to start a fight. The last thing I wanted was to end up in court where the big winners are the lawyers. So we sat down with the CM, worked out a payment to him, and signed a lien waiver and contract termination form. The CM didn't act mad and was probably as glad as we were to end the contract.
 
   / At Home In The Woods #935  
Obed;

Have you thought about filing a report to the BBB or Angie's list documenting his performance so others may be fairly warned?
Just a thought....
 
   / At Home In The Woods #936  
The draw schedule was a major factor that caused us to keep the CM as long as we did. Our contract had us paying him (labor only) in 3 equal payments.
1. After the footers were poured.
2. After the framing was completed. I would estimate that the framing would occupy 90% of the CM's effort with 10% going to other tasks he was supposed to perform.
3. After completion of drying in the house

Once the footers were poured and the first draw was paid, the CM had all the advantage. We would lose a large chunk of money for not much work if we let him go at that time. It was after we had paid him the first draw that I started getting hints that his competancy and quality of work might have some issues. But we were hesitant to get rid of him because we hadn't yet gotten much work for our money.

If I had it to do over again, I would not have given him such a large draw near the beginning. I would have made smaller payments so that I could let him go if needed without losing a large sum of money. I know a lot of contractors will ask for a large chunk up front. However, in today's slow economy, I'm thinking that issue could be negotiated.

Toward the end, we had the advantage because most of the house had been framed and he had not received a payment in a while. We could have gotten rid of him, paid him what we felt he had earned minus our costs to fix his mistakes. The only thing he could have done would have been to put a lien on our house and then sue us for extra payment (i.e. the full 2nd and 3rd draws).

According to our attorney, once the CM finished the framing, we could pay him the 2nd draw and would not legally owe him any other money. So we had that option and could have used that leverage if needed. We have required the subs to sign lien release waivers when we paid them that stated that all work performed and materials used to-date were paid in full. I'm fairly confident that we could have paid the CM the 2nd draw and gotten him to sign the waiver before letting him know we wanted to terminate the contract. He had already signed a waiver for the 1st draw. We could have then fired him without paying anything extra and it would have been very difficult for him to collect any more from us.

His only option for getting any more money from us would have been to put a lien on our house and bring suit against us for non-payment within 12 months. If he didn't file suit within the 1st 12 months, he would not be able to file suit against us for non-payment later. Although he wouldn't have much legal standing to file the lien, it would still be easy to do and would require us to sue him to have the lien released.

In our situation, filing a lien against us wouldn't affect us. The attorney said that most title companies ignore liens older than 3 years. If the CM filed a lien but didn't follow up with a lawsuit within 12 months, he would lose the right to bring the suit to court and would have no legal way to collect. So the CM would have to file a lawsuit within 12 months if he wanted to collect more money (i.e. the 3rd draw).

Our attorney said that if we had to go to court, it would cost us $10,000 in legal fees and that the best thing for us to do would be to sit down with the CM and work out an agreement to end the contract. If we paid the 2nd draw and got the lien release signed before firing him, it might not appear above board and might encourage the CM to fight us. So we followed the attorney's advice. While I believe it is unlikely that the CM would go to the effort to take us to court, it seemed best to just try to cleanly end things now than to start a fight. The last thing I wanted was to end up in court where the big winners are the lawyers. So we sat down with the CM, worked out a payment to him, and signed a lien waiver and contract termination form. The CM didn't act mad and was probably as glad as we were to end the contract.
I'm not sure he would have any standing to file a lien since he hadn't performed the work required for the 3rd draw. He could possibly file suit for breach of contract.
In my area a contractor filing a lien can throw a monkey wrench in the entire payout system. When a lien is in place the title company will require the customer to put up more cash or secure loan commitments for the original payout schedule plus as much as 150% of the amount of the lien.

Payout schedules have changed over the years. It used to be common to get a down payment before construction began, a draw when the foundation was done, 2nd draw at dry in, and final at completion. Over time the down payment disappeared. Now days Bi-weekly or even weekly payouts are much more common. The upside is contractors don't need as much working capital. The down side is the bank and title companies charge the customer more for making the extra payouts.
 
   / At Home In The Woods #937  
FYI, Here's a wood frame details document I found on the web.

http://www.awc.org/pdf/WCD1-300.pdf

I also have a couple books I found to be very handy:
1. Modern Framing
2. The complete Guide to contracting your home
3. AIA Architectural Graphic standards - check your library
 
   / At Home In The Woods #939  
Obed

Sorry you had to go though this but like Eddie and others have said get a few guys in there and act stupid letting them point out to you what is wrong. Just tell them you contractor quit and you need to find a new one.

At the end of the day this is your dream home. You have lived in the trailer this long so a few extra weeks or months will be nothing to get it done right.

Chris
 
   / At Home In The Woods #940  
Your learned knowledge and progress has now become indispensable. I have certainly learned something here. If I ever hire a contractor, I would make sure I don't pay more then what the work has done and keep losses to minimum.
 

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