At Home In The Woods

[scoutcub]

Obed -

I understand and appreciate the comments on alternatives for kitchen flooring.
While I would consider alternatives as well when we build our retirement home in several more years, I won't rule wood out. Our last 3 houses (back to 1998) have all had wood floors, and we've never had a problem. Now, we've never had a major plumbing leak either, but plenty of spilled glasses of water, milk, juice, faucet failures, dishwasher failures, and disposal failures, resulting in minor leakage. Never had any wood popping up or ruined because of it. But we got too it pretty quickly. Just food for thought.

And, I think your progress is great. I've certainly picked up numerous tips, and truly enjoy your picture documentation. I'm also extremely impressed with the brickwork, the place looks fantastic!

 

[nhkabotab7800]

OBED,

the crimping tool puts a dent in the corner bead to hold it in place untill the mud helps to "secure" it.

you said that the corner bead was stapled which may be enough...would not be hard to add 6 to 8 screws particularly on the corner beads that are in high trafic areas that will be likely to be bumped. put um in right through the mud and then touch up the hole with spakel or extra mud left behind. Seems to me that you have the ability to easily take care of this...now the time is another issue

Rick

 

[firefighter9208]

Obed,

Buy that moisture meter and make sure that the hardwood is acclimated to the environment and the moisture level is low enough before installing the wood.

The guy that did our hardwood (I'll restrain myself here) was a total idiot. This was my first house to build and I didn't have all the good advice that you have been given. He showed up to install the flooring, unloaded it out of his trailer, and began installing. He never checked the moisture and didn't let it acclimate.

I was at work when he showed up to finish it ( a month or so later) and he didn't properly sand the floor. I couldn't tell this because it couldn't be walked on for 3 or 4 days. Being "green" as a builder I went ahead and paid him, because he "needed" the money. I should have known better.

Come to find out his "crew" didn't come to help him and he sanded, stained, and finished 2100 sq. ft. of hardwood by himself in less than 8 hours.

The floor was wavy and even had staples and hair embedded in the finish. When we called him back (took 3 weeks to get him to come out) he said that he would resand and refinish for X amount of money.

I told him to get in his truck and get off my property. I have cost him 10x the amount of money that it would have cost him to properly refinish my floor with bad advertisement over the years. I've told everyone that I could that was building a house to not use him.

My wife says that when our children get older we will have the floor properly refinished by a competent crew. We have spoken to a couple refinishers that said it would take their crew 2 days to properly sand, clean, stain and finish 2100 sq. ft.

We have red oak (2" boards) in the kitchen, living room, dining room, hall, and our master bedroom. We plan to eventually (when we refinish the floor) install the hardwood in our bedroom. I will remove the hardwood from the master bath and install tile at that time. Too much water in the bathroom for wood. We have had no problems with the hardwood in the kitchen.

Chris

 

[Obed]

Here are the latest pictures of the stone work.

The stone mason was sick most of last week and didn't get much done last week. He worked today. He has been extremely accomodating. He did the soldering over the dining room window today and asked my wife if she liked it. If she didn't like it, he would have been willing to redo it to her satisfaction. We haven't yet hired anyone to do the cultured stonework for the living room fireplace. There is a good chance we will use the same guy because we like his work and his desire to please us.

 

[Obed]

Several of the electrical boxes for the outlets have drywall mud covering a significant portion of them. Here's an example.

Who typically cleans out the extra mud? The drywall guys? The electrician? The painter?

Thanks,
Obed

 

[Obed]

Did the drywallers miss any of your electrical boxes? They missed two when they did our place. The extra boxes in odd places for the automation are the ones they missed. They know to look for light switches and outlets.

Pete

Pete,
Guess what? The drywallers covered an electrical box that I had installed in the master bedroom walk-in closet. They just hung the drywall right over the box without noticing it. I suppose they might not frequently see outlets in closets. I'm glad you mentioned this. We would never have thought to check for electrical boxes getting covered by drywall. Plus, it would have been an electrical hazard because the wires in the electrical box are loose without anything protecting the wires from shorting together. We checked all the low voltage boxes too; none of them got covered.

Thanks!
Obed

 

[Obed]

The guy that did our hardwood (I'll restrain myself here) was a total idiot. This was my first house to build and I didn't have all the good advice that you have been given. He showed up to install the flooring, unloaded it out of his trailer, and began installing. He never checked the moisture and didn't let it acclimate.
Chris

Chris,
I'm sorry to hear your story but very thankful you told it. It's good to know what to look out for. There's an endless number of things you have to watch out for when building a house that it would never occur to you to check for until you had seen it done or heard about it.

For example, when we renovated our last house, we created a pantry closet in the kitchen that had not previously existed. The drywaller left a 4" gap over the inside of the pantry closet over the door. We didn't notice the gap until we had paid him and he was gone. Yes, over the door on the inside of the closet there was an open area across the entire door and you could see inside the wall framing! In our current house, it would have never occurred to me that the plumber would install PVC drain pipes without using the purple primer. That's just not a question it would occur to me to ask. The plumber signed a contract with us that stated he would install everything to meet code and install everything to the manufacturer's specifications. I assure you, that installing drain pipes without using the purple primer does not meet the manufacturer's specifications. The H&A guy tried to install the ductwork for the bathroom vents in a way that any water condensate inside the ducts would drain backward into the house instead of drain outside, once again against the manufacturer's recommendations. The list goes on and on.

And these guys are the "professionals." Some of them patronize us as "non-professionals" who don't know what we're talking about. Please note that not all the subs are this way. Some of the subs we have used are complete professionals.

For our build, here's my opinion of each of the subs we've used so far:
Foundation guy - great
Concrete floor guy - good
Original framer - horrible
2nd framer - good
Electrician - ok
Plumber - fair to poor
H&A guy - poor
Brick guy - good
Vinyl and gutters guy - great
Stone guy - great
Drywall - good (so far)

During the process of building our house, we have learned to ask the subs detailed questions when getting bids regarding how they do their work. For example, we asked the trim carpenters how they cut the trim at the wall corners. One guy just makes 45 degree cuts and caulks the trim joint if the wall is not perfectly square. Another guy measures the angle at each wall corner and copes the trim to match the angle of the wall. Answers to questions like these help us to choose who gets the bid. Unfortunately, we don't always know the right questions to ask. TBN has been a tremendous help in this regard.

Obed

 

[firefighter9208]

Chris,
I'm sorry to hear your story but very thankful you told it. It's good to know what to look out for. There's an endless number of things you have to watch out for when building a house that it would never occur to you to check for until you had seen it done or heard about it.

For example, when we renovated our last house, we created a pantry closet in the kitchen that had not previously existed. The drywaller left a 4" gap over the inside of the pantry closet over the door. We didn't notice the gap until we had paid him and he was gone. Yes, over the door on the inside of the closet there was an open area across the entire door and you could see inside the wall framing! In our current house, it would have never occurred to me that the plumber would install PVC drain pipes without using the purple primer. That's just not a question it would occur to me to ask. The plumber signed a contract with us that stated he would install everything to meet code and install everything to the manufacturer's specifications. I assure you, that installing drain pipes without using the purple primer does not meet the manufacturer's specifications. The H&A guy tried to install the ductwork for the bathroom vents in a way that any water condensate inside the ducts would drain backward into the house instead of drain outside, once again against the manufacturer's recommendations. The list goes on and on.

And these guys are the "professionals." Some of them patronize us as "non-professionals" who don't know what we're talking about. Please note that not all the subs are this way. Some of the subs we have used are complete professionals.

For our build, here's my opinion of each of the subs we've used so far:
Foundation guy - great
Concrete floor guy - good
Original framer - horrible
2nd framer - good
Electrician - ok
Plumber - fair to poor
H&A guy - poor
Brick guy - good
Vinyl and gutters guy - great
Stone guy - great
Drywall - good (so far)

During the process of building our house, we have learned to ask the subs detailed questions when getting bids regarding how they do their work. For example, we asked the trim carpenters how they cut the trim at the wall corners. One guy just makes 45 degree cuts and caulks the trim joint if the wall is not perfectly square. Another guy measures the angle at each wall corner and copes the trim to match the angle of the wall. Answers to questions like these help us to choose who gets the bid. Unfortunately, we don't always know the right questions to ask. TBN has been a tremendous help in this regard.

Obed

Obed,

The bad thing about the guy was that he graduated with my wife and was highly recommended by a couple general contractors that I know. I guess he figured that he could "stiff" us, since he knew us, and it would be all right.

For the most part we had a really good experience building our house, but I do wish that we could go back and change a couple of the subs that we used.

Good luck with finishing the house. It looks like you are almost there.

BTW: I made the sheetrock guys remove the extra mud from the outlets. If you try to do it and crack the sheetrock around the outlet they may expect you to pay. If they damage the sheetrock removing the mud then they have to repair it.

Chris

 

[eepete]

On the mud in the electrical boxes, like a lot of things if it's up in the air then unfortunately you own it. I'd cut or knock it out now before any painting occurs and while you still have the mess from all the drywalling in the house. Otherwise, the electrician will only remove what he has to to get to stuff the wires in and get at the screw holes, and that debris will fall on your floor. If you crack something, it's easy now to mud/spackle it and sand it. This is also a good time to check and make sure they didn't cut any of your wires with their roto-zip tool. If they cut them off too short to use, now is the time to call them back, tear things up, and fix it.

I typically took a utility knife and cut along the box. For heavy stuff, scored with the knife and knocked it out with a screw driver. Get the screw hole areas accessible for the electrician. I didn't crack anything.

This is also a good time to check and see if the hole they cut around outlets and ceiling boxes is too big. Usually when they go too big (a slip of the roto-zip tool) they will mud it up but they will miss some. You can fix it easily now, it's harder when there is paint and the flooring is in.

Talk to your painter to see who gets to clean the drywall dust off of the walls. I think it makes a differance, but had to do it myself because each trade (drywallers and painters) told me "the other guy _always_ does that" :confused2:. Maybe people on the forum with more painting experience than I have can comment further on this.

I could post pages on this sort of between the cracks problems...:smiley_aafz:

Our old house has an outlet in a hall we never found. New house had one box they missed, I found it _after_ painting so I just cut out the inside but not enough that the drywall popped back in place .

Anyone who builds a house has less respect for the trades in general, but also has a heighten appreciation for someone who is good and cares about what they do. Also remember that any project that actually got finished has flaws. Sometimes your job is simple to control where the flaws are so the job can get done.

Pete

 

[Barton]

My experience has been that the painters will wipe a wall with a rag just before they paint it, if you are watching. If you are not watching they will paint over the dusty walls. It would be best to clean it yourself to make sure it gets done and done right. Then clean them again.

 

[Obed]

Today the workers sprayed knockdown on the ceilings.

They put drywall mud in the sprayer and spray it on the ceilings. They use a blade on a pole to scrape off the splatter that lands on the top of the walls near the ceiling. They drag a wide blade along the ceiling to flatten the mud on the ceiling to give the mud its final texture.

 

[shane]

Another question you ask your trim carpenter is does he shim his doors. Many don't these days. It does make a difference in the long run, just as coping.

 

[brin]

Today the workers sprayed knockdown on the ceilings.

They put drywall mud in the sprayer and spray it on the ceilings. They use a blade on a pole to scrape off the splatter that lands on the top of the walls near the ceiling. They drag a wide blade along the ceiling to flatten the mud on the ceiling to give the mud its final texture.

Obed, You mean you are having textured ceilings ? Commonly called popcorn finish here in Georgia ? or are you going to have flat surfaced ceilings ?

 

[MarkV]

In my world these would be called a knockdown finish also. Applied the same way as the "popcorn finish" and then hit with a blade to flatten the round beads of a popcorn finish. It tends to simulate real old textured plaster finishes.

MarkV

 

[brin]

In my world these would be called a knockdown finish also. Applied the same way as the "popcorn finish" and then hit with a blade to flatten the round beads of a popcorn finish. It tends to simulate real old textured plaster finishes.

MarkV

Mark, Here in Georgia a whole industry took off with dry wall folks being paid beginning in the early 1990's to scrape all of the popcorn finish or other knowdown finish off of existing ceilings . People no longer wanted anything but a flat ceiling surface and painted just like the wall...not the same color but smooth paint finish as opposed to any texture. It became well known that any mud applied to the ceiling was a way the sheet rock folks got away without having to sand or properly finish the ceilings...Folks wised up to it here and now if you have a house on the market with popcorn or any textured ceiling folks do not want it..

 

[MarkV]

Bob I don't disagree and have pretty much seen the same thing being in Georgia myself. I do like the knockdown finish much better than popcorn but I believe I fit in the group that just wants smooth sheetrock ceilings.

MarkV

 

[brin]

Bob I don't disagree and have pretty much seen the same thing being in Georgia myself. I do like the knockdown finish much better than popcorn but I believe I fit in the group that just wants smooth sheetrock ceilings.

MarkV

Mark 5 yrs ago when we built our house we made sure we had smooth ceilings since when we were trying to sell our house on a parcel next to our farm, which we still own, it seemed like everyone objected to the textured ceilings..It was not even the popcorn it was , as you say, the knockdown finish and we had more folks come in that hated it and the Realtor told us that since the early 90's the majority of folks wanted smooth painted ceilings...We like them better too. The Realtor is the one who told me the sheet rockers loved the textured ceilings since they did not have to sand or finish them and folks finally caught on..

 

[Obed]

Ceiling Insulation Prep
Insulating our ceiling has been aberation for all the insulation companies. The fact that we are not finishing the attic but have sub-floor in the attic for structural support has caused the insulation companies to scratch their heads. Most people who build an upstairs like ours finish it so they don't need insulation between the main floor and the upstairs. I described the rational for the subflooring in the attic here.

Building a house can have a never ending stream of drama. The insulation company I described here was scheduled to arrive this afternoon and blow the insulation in our main floor ceiling. We had a general laborer we've used before to arrive this morning to prep the attic for the insulation work scheduled for the afternoon. The plan was for our laborer to remove about 1/3 of the OSB sheets in the attic in the morning. That afternoon the insulation company would blow insulation in the ceiling through the openings caused by removing the OSB. This morning our worker did not show. My wife called him and left a message. He called back and said that he's in Kentucky doing some work there this week.

So my wife called her father who came over. They removed some OSB boards but found the going very slow. To complicate things, the infamous construction manager was supposed to partially screw down the OSB boards but instead he completely screwed them. There are 18 screws in each sheet; there should have been half that number in each sheet. By the time you locate the hard to see screws, dig the sawdust out of the screw heads so you can unscrew them, and remove the screws, you can spend 20 to 30 minutes removing each sheet. Plus, some of the OSB sheets have to be cut because they may sit under walls. My wife and father-in-law saw that there was no way they could remove the OSB in time so the insulation company had to be re-scheduled.

This evening I removed some OSB sheets after work. The loose sheets have been slid over about 3 inches from their installed location. It took me 2 hours to remove 4 sheets. The last sheet went faster than the others once I started getting a system. The screwdriver bit would tend to slip when unscrewing the screws. I found I needed to dig the sawdust out of the screw heads before unscrewing to rectify this problem.

We are trying to re-schedule the insulation blowing for Monday. That will give us the weekend to make sure we have removed the required OSB.

 

[Obed]

Today the drywall sub asked to be paid. My wife told him she wanted us to go through the house first and check the work before paying him. So she went through the house and put blue tape on the walls for things she would like the drywall sub to touch up. Today the drywall workers swept and "cleaned". However, they left about 1/3 of the electrical boxes full of drywall dust. The wife is going to ask them to clean out all the electrical boxes before she pays them.

Overall, the drywall guys have done a decent job. It's not perfect but not bad either.

 

[Obed]

Mark 5 yrs ago when we built our house we made sure we had smooth ceilings since when we were trying to sell our house on a parcel next to our farm, which we still own, it seemed like everyone objected to the textured ceilings..It was not even the popcorn it was , as you say, the knockdown finish and we had more folks come in that hated it and the Realtor told us that since the early 90's the majority of folks wanted smooth painted ceilings...We like them better too. The Realtor is the one who told me the sheet rockers loved the textured ceilings since they did not have to sand or finish them and folks finally caught on..

Bob,
In this area, flat ceilings came into vogue in the late 90's but are less popular now that the knockdown finish has become available. Most new houses have knockdown on the ceiling including the high end houses. I rarely see a new house with flat ceilings.

People hated the popcorn because it collects dirt, is impossible to clean, and is very difficult to repaint. You can repaint over knockdown. In fact, a lot of houses this decade have knockdown on the walls too. I don't like knockdown on the walls but am ok with it on the ceilings. If you have flat ceilings, they better be finished extremely well because the lighting on the ceiling can show every imperfection.

In our last house, I scraped all the popcorn off the ceilings and repainted them flat. That was quite a job.

Obed