At Home In The Woods

   / At Home In The Woods #941  
Any updated pics?
Is the roof framing finished?

I would consider hiring someone to get the shell weather tight -- see how they do and then consider where you want to go from there. Once you are weather tight you can take as long as you need to line up contractors.
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#942  
Your learned knowledge and progress has now become indispensable. I have certainly learned something here. If I ever hire a contractor, I would make sure I don't pay more then what the work has done and keep losses to minimum.
In my case, it worked out that I was pressured to keep a sub-standard contractor around even though I had very little trust in his work. That added up to a lot of stress. I was constantly worried about what he would do poorly next. That led to my having to micro-manage him and we ended up with a miserable working relationship.

If we had not paid him 1/3 of his total early on, I would have been much more willing to get rid of him.

Obed
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#943  
Here's what the house looks like from the outside.

attachment.php


We have met with 6 or 7 contractors. A couple of them said they were not interested in the job. We are getting bids in and hope to pick someone this week.

The county inspector is supposed to come out and inspect the framing tomorrow per our request. We wanted to make sure we've identified the issues before we have the new contractor tear out some stuff and redo it. We are taking a risk because the inspector might say something about our living in the camper. We are hoping they just "look the other way."
 

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   / At Home In The Woods #944  
You could take your experience plus some of Eddie's tips and write a book on dealing with contractors. I suspect he structured the draws so that you were pretty stuck with him. If any of us spoke to our bosses at work the way he spoke to you, we'd be on our way to the unemployment office. Goodbye and good riddance to your CM.
 
   / At Home In The Woods #945  
Obed, would you P.M. me with the original contactor's name? I'm looking at having a house built here, too, in the next year or so. "Here" being Anderson County. My land is just south of Clinton. Where are you?

mkane09
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#946  
Obed, would you P.M. me with the original contactor's name? I'm looking at having a house built here, too, in the next year or so. "Here" being Anderson County. My land is just south of Clinton. Where are you?

mkane09
mkane09,
Sure. I'll be happy to provide you with the names of contractors/subs we liked and didn't like.
Obed
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#947  
You could take your experience plus some of Eddie's tips and write a book on dealing with contractors. I suspect he structured the draws so that you were pretty stuck with him. If any of us spoke to our bosses at work the way he spoke to you, we'd be on our way to the unemployment office. Goodbye and good riddance to your CM.
Right now, I could provide some info on what not to do when dealing with contractors. I'm hoping we do a better job picking our subs moving forward. Originally getting recommendations for quality contractors was hard. We didn't use the right criteria when we picked the construction manager (CM). He was referred to us by a retired general contractor that I met in our neighborhood. The retired GC highly recommended the CM indicating that the CM was honest with high integrity. However, I'm not sure that the retired contractor had ever used the CM. While the CM seems for the most part to be honest, that doesn't mean he is competant.

So we contacted the CM and got some references. Keep in mind that the CM could easily withhold names of any customers who didn't like him. We did get one warning signal from one of the references the CM gave us. That person gave the CM a favorable recommendation but said we "would have to watch him." Now I know what he meant. Another bad sign was that the CM didn't have any active jobs we could go see. He showed us his own house he built a few years ago. However, we couldn't see the framing work underneath. Sheetrock and siding can hide a lot of bad things.

The framer that we are leaning towards hiring showed us this past Saturday a house still under construction that he had recently finished framing. Comparing this guy's framing quality to our CM's framing was like night and day. All the bad things I noticed about the framing in our house were done well in the house the new framer showed us. Plus, we got to meet the developer/builder for which the framer had built several houses; that builder seemed to really like this framer. In addition, when talking to this potential framer, several times he volunteered that he would do such and such "however we wanted it." I didn't get a sense that I would have to fight this guy to do things my way, even though I'm not a "professional".

A resource that has been helpful to us recently has been to get referrals for subs from subs who did good work for us. We are hoping that workers who do quality work will be somewhat selective when they refer someone. In my own line of work, people who do quality work tend to be careful about who they will recommend. I know that I won't give job recommendations for just anyone. The electrician we are going to use came as a reference from the foundation/poured wall subcontractor who did a real good job for us. This electrician wired the foundation guy's house.

A long time ago, we decided not to use the CM's electrician for a couple of reasons. First, we didn't like the plumber that the CM used for our basement plumbing drains so were suspicious about the quality of the subs he uses. My impression is that the CM has low standards in his work and that he therefore doesn't have high standards for the subs he uses. Secondly, we asked the CM's electrician to give us a bid for the electrical work for our house. Even though we have a detailed electrical plan drawing that shows every light and outlet, the CM's electrician didn't use the plan but gave us a $/square foot bid. Well, that didn't tell me anything at all about the final electrical cost for building OUR house. Plus, it seemed rather lazy to give us a $/SF bid when the electrician could have spent 30 minutes giving us a bid off of the drawings. And I don't like surprises when I get the bill. My experience in the past, whether getting work done on my house or getting a car repaired, has been that everytime I hire someone to do a job without getting a solid bid, the job always ends up costing more than I thought it would cost.

So now we are asking for references for workers from the subs we like and from our building supplier. We have also gotten references from other people who have built houses for themselves but those references haven't panned out so well. Sometimes homeowners don't really know if their contractors/subs are doing quality work. They just know they "liked the guy."

Honestly, I can't imagine how anyone who used our CM to build their house could recommend him if they had any clue about what sound building practices were and what the code book says. However, the CM gave us a handful of names of people who liked the work he did for them. Unfortunately, our CM frequently cut corners and we were constantly having to make him redo stuff. Or we'd have to ask him ahead of time how he was going to build something. For example, if I hadn't pushed it, the CM was going to have the top of the poured concrete basement wall in one corner of the house to be lower than the final grade of dirt. He claimed it would be fine because we would have brick between the dirt and the bottom of the framed wall which would have been below grade. There was no way I was going to have the framing of our house below grade; brick and mortor are not waterproof. I also looked it up in the code book and found that it would be a code violation. That was the first hint I remember that made me start to question the CM's competency.

Getting good subs is one advantage that a good general contractor has over a homeowner like us. However, the assumption is that you have a good general contractor. If we could pick a bad CM, which we did, then we could just as easily pick a bad general contractor. There are good workers and bad workers in every field, GCs are no exception. My parents hired a GC to build their house when I was a kid and the guy did a lousy job. That GC cut corners that caused headaches for my dad for years and years.

Obed
 
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   / At Home In The Woods #948  
Obed,

Well said. This is really turning into a great thread for others to read who are thinking of building a house. I admire your willingness to share with all of us what you are going through, and have had to deal with.

Thank you,
Eddie
 
   / At Home In The Woods #949  
With the house plans completed, in Sept. we asked 3 contractors for bids. Two of the contractors were licensed general contractors and one was a framer who will do more than just framing. The bids from the 2 general contractors made me fall off my seat. Their quotes would make the house cost about 40 - 50% more than what it could sell for when finished. There was no way we could do that. So my wife and I are now the general contractor. We hired the framer I mentioned above to do the framing and help us do some other stuff that we don't know how to do.

I am confused. Do you still see yourself as the GC?

Was the framer you hired trying to act as a CM?
 
   / At Home In The Woods #950  
It seems like in the last pic the roof is mostly finished.

Is all the sheathing on?

IF you have the skills/tools/equipment to fix and finish the framing I'd suggest doing it your self. And then hiring a roofer ASAP. A siding contractor could handle the tyvek and windows.

Once that is done it is pretty straight forward scheduling the subs.
You'll feel a lot better about having a water tight house and if the subs are not wary of the situation (fired contractors/unhappy homeowners) you will get better prices.
 

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