At Home In The Woods

   / At Home In The Woods #941  
Any updated pics?
Is the roof framing finished?

I would consider hiring someone to get the shell weather tight -- see how they do and then consider where you want to go from there. Once you are weather tight you can take as long as you need to line up contractors.
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#942  
Your learned knowledge and progress has now become indispensable. I have certainly learned something here. If I ever hire a contractor, I would make sure I don't pay more then what the work has done and keep losses to minimum.
In my case, it worked out that I was pressured to keep a sub-standard contractor around even though I had very little trust in his work. That added up to a lot of stress. I was constantly worried about what he would do poorly next. That led to my having to micro-manage him and we ended up with a miserable working relationship.

If we had not paid him 1/3 of his total early on, I would have been much more willing to get rid of him.

Obed
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#943  
Here's what the house looks like from the outside.

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We have met with 6 or 7 contractors. A couple of them said they were not interested in the job. We are getting bids in and hope to pick someone this week.

The county inspector is supposed to come out and inspect the framing tomorrow per our request. We wanted to make sure we've identified the issues before we have the new contractor tear out some stuff and redo it. We are taking a risk because the inspector might say something about our living in the camper. We are hoping they just "look the other way."
 

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   / At Home In The Woods #944  
You could take your experience plus some of Eddie's tips and write a book on dealing with contractors. I suspect he structured the draws so that you were pretty stuck with him. If any of us spoke to our bosses at work the way he spoke to you, we'd be on our way to the unemployment office. Goodbye and good riddance to your CM.
 
   / At Home In The Woods #945  
Obed, would you P.M. me with the original contactor's name? I'm looking at having a house built here, too, in the next year or so. "Here" being Anderson County. My land is just south of Clinton. Where are you?

mkane09
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#946  
Obed, would you P.M. me with the original contactor's name? I'm looking at having a house built here, too, in the next year or so. "Here" being Anderson County. My land is just south of Clinton. Where are you?

mkane09
mkane09,
Sure. I'll be happy to provide you with the names of contractors/subs we liked and didn't like.
Obed
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#947  
You could take your experience plus some of Eddie's tips and write a book on dealing with contractors. I suspect he structured the draws so that you were pretty stuck with him. If any of us spoke to our bosses at work the way he spoke to you, we'd be on our way to the unemployment office. Goodbye and good riddance to your CM.
Right now, I could provide some info on what not to do when dealing with contractors. I'm hoping we do a better job picking our subs moving forward. Originally getting recommendations for quality contractors was hard. We didn't use the right criteria when we picked the construction manager (CM). He was referred to us by a retired general contractor that I met in our neighborhood. The retired GC highly recommended the CM indicating that the CM was honest with high integrity. However, I'm not sure that the retired contractor had ever used the CM. While the CM seems for the most part to be honest, that doesn't mean he is competant.

So we contacted the CM and got some references. Keep in mind that the CM could easily withhold names of any customers who didn't like him. We did get one warning signal from one of the references the CM gave us. That person gave the CM a favorable recommendation but said we "would have to watch him." Now I know what he meant. Another bad sign was that the CM didn't have any active jobs we could go see. He showed us his own house he built a few years ago. However, we couldn't see the framing work underneath. Sheetrock and siding can hide a lot of bad things.

The framer that we are leaning towards hiring showed us this past Saturday a house still under construction that he had recently finished framing. Comparing this guy's framing quality to our CM's framing was like night and day. All the bad things I noticed about the framing in our house were done well in the house the new framer showed us. Plus, we got to meet the developer/builder for which the framer had built several houses; that builder seemed to really like this framer. In addition, when talking to this potential framer, several times he volunteered that he would do such and such "however we wanted it." I didn't get a sense that I would have to fight this guy to do things my way, even though I'm not a "professional".

A resource that has been helpful to us recently has been to get referrals for subs from subs who did good work for us. We are hoping that workers who do quality work will be somewhat selective when they refer someone. In my own line of work, people who do quality work tend to be careful about who they will recommend. I know that I won't give job recommendations for just anyone. The electrician we are going to use came as a reference from the foundation/poured wall subcontractor who did a real good job for us. This electrician wired the foundation guy's house.

A long time ago, we decided not to use the CM's electrician for a couple of reasons. First, we didn't like the plumber that the CM used for our basement plumbing drains so were suspicious about the quality of the subs he uses. My impression is that the CM has low standards in his work and that he therefore doesn't have high standards for the subs he uses. Secondly, we asked the CM's electrician to give us a bid for the electrical work for our house. Even though we have a detailed electrical plan drawing that shows every light and outlet, the CM's electrician didn't use the plan but gave us a $/square foot bid. Well, that didn't tell me anything at all about the final electrical cost for building OUR house. Plus, it seemed rather lazy to give us a $/SF bid when the electrician could have spent 30 minutes giving us a bid off of the drawings. And I don't like surprises when I get the bill. My experience in the past, whether getting work done on my house or getting a car repaired, has been that everytime I hire someone to do a job without getting a solid bid, the job always ends up costing more than I thought it would cost.

So now we are asking for references for workers from the subs we like and from our building supplier. We have also gotten references from other people who have built houses for themselves but those references haven't panned out so well. Sometimes homeowners don't really know if their contractors/subs are doing quality work. They just know they "liked the guy."

Honestly, I can't imagine how anyone who used our CM to build their house could recommend him if they had any clue about what sound building practices were and what the code book says. However, the CM gave us a handful of names of people who liked the work he did for them. Unfortunately, our CM frequently cut corners and we were constantly having to make him redo stuff. Or we'd have to ask him ahead of time how he was going to build something. For example, if I hadn't pushed it, the CM was going to have the top of the poured concrete basement wall in one corner of the house to be lower than the final grade of dirt. He claimed it would be fine because we would have brick between the dirt and the bottom of the framed wall which would have been below grade. There was no way I was going to have the framing of our house below grade; brick and mortor are not waterproof. I also looked it up in the code book and found that it would be a code violation. That was the first hint I remember that made me start to question the CM's competency.

Getting good subs is one advantage that a good general contractor has over a homeowner like us. However, the assumption is that you have a good general contractor. If we could pick a bad CM, which we did, then we could just as easily pick a bad general contractor. There are good workers and bad workers in every field, GCs are no exception. My parents hired a GC to build their house when I was a kid and the guy did a lousy job. That GC cut corners that caused headaches for my dad for years and years.

Obed
 
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   / At Home In The Woods #948  
Obed,

Well said. This is really turning into a great thread for others to read who are thinking of building a house. I admire your willingness to share with all of us what you are going through, and have had to deal with.

Thank you,
Eddie
 
   / At Home In The Woods #949  
With the house plans completed, in Sept. we asked 3 contractors for bids. Two of the contractors were licensed general contractors and one was a framer who will do more than just framing. The bids from the 2 general contractors made me fall off my seat. Their quotes would make the house cost about 40 - 50% more than what it could sell for when finished. There was no way we could do that. So my wife and I are now the general contractor. We hired the framer I mentioned above to do the framing and help us do some other stuff that we don't know how to do.

I am confused. Do you still see yourself as the GC?

Was the framer you hired trying to act as a CM?
 
   / At Home In The Woods #950  
It seems like in the last pic the roof is mostly finished.

Is all the sheathing on?

IF you have the skills/tools/equipment to fix and finish the framing I'd suggest doing it your self. And then hiring a roofer ASAP. A siding contractor could handle the tyvek and windows.

Once that is done it is pretty straight forward scheduling the subs.
You'll feel a lot better about having a water tight house and if the subs are not wary of the situation (fired contractors/unhappy homeowners) you will get better prices.
 
   / At Home In The Woods #951  
Obed; My impression is that the CM has low standards in his work and that he therefore doesn't have high standards for the subs he uses. Obed[/quote said:
Birds of a feather flock together.

"One who is slack in his work is brother to one who destroys." Proverbs 18:9
 
   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#953  
It seems like in the last pic the roof is mostly finished.

Is all the sheathing on?

IF you have the skills/tools/equipment to fix and finish the framing I'd suggest doing it your self. And then hiring a roofer ASAP. A siding contractor could handle the tyvek and windows.

Once that is done it is pretty straight forward scheduling the subs.
You'll feel a lot better about having a water tight house and if the subs are not wary of the situation (fired contractors/unhappy homeowners) you will get better prices.
Front porch sheathing is not finished. Back porch has not been started. Both of the front dormers are going to be fixed. Half of the garage roof will very likely get torn off in order to redo what the first framer/CM messed up. So unfortunately we're not ready for the roofing.
 
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   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#954  
Yesterday we took back some lumber to Home Depot that the CM had purchased. Rather than plan ahead and purchase wood from our building supplier, he had been going to Home Depo and buying stuff. When my wife found out he was doing this, she told him that she wanted him to use our building supplier. One $620 bill from Home Depot for lumber would have cost $500 from our building supplier. Plus, we are not thrilled with the quality of materials we have seen from Home Depot and Lowes. Our experience is these places charge high prices for low quality products.

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We returned the lumber in the picture plus 7 pieces of 8'x4' OSB for a $220 store credit. We couldn't get cash because the CM purchased the lumber using his American Express. Our options were to get a store credit or to credit the CM's American Express card.

So after the CM framed most of the front porch, I found a big pile of scrap lumber with 5' and 6' long 2x's. Rather than order the right length boards from our supplier which takes a couple days of planning, the CM had just cut extra long boards that we had on site and made a bunch of waste. So we paid for 16' boards when we only needed 10' boards.
 

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   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#955  
Yesterday I dug out beside this retaining wall in preparation for putting in a French drain for this retaining wall, something the construction manager (CM) should have done. He put a drain tile beside the basement concrete walls. Unfortunately, instead of continuing the drain tile along the inside of this retaining wall, he put in a solid pipe to drain the water from the basement wall. He then filled in the escavated area beside the retaining wall the very same day without giving me a chance to stop it. It would have be easy to put the drain tile down instead of the solid pipe. I told him he should have put a drain tile down because of freezing issues but it was like arguing with a fence post.

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Ideally, the French drain would be at the bottom of the wall. That would be my preference. We have gravel that is 4 feet wide and 2 feet deep at the bottom of the wall that can help drain water along the wall but there is no drain tile in it. Digging down to the bottom of this 10 foot wall would be a huge task, one which is too big a job for me to do. So I'm going to put in a drain tile approximately half way down the wall as a work-around. I understand this isn't ideal, but it's better than not doing anything. In addition, once the brick is laid, I plan to grade the dirt so that water will drain away from the wall to try to route as much water as possible away from the wall.
 

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   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#956  
I had a tough time getting the tractor positioned to dig due to the steep slope. I put rocks behind the tires as chocks for a precaution before getting off the the tractor seat and sitting on the backhoe seat.

Although the pictures show me digging with the backhoe, I spent most of the day digging with a hand shovel and maddock. The red clay makes for very difficult digging. I spent 8 solid hours digging on Saturday.

Here's how it looked when I finished.
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The wife made me a homemade cherry cobbler for my reward.
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   / At Home In The Woods
  • Thread Starter
#957  
We have settled on a framer who will finish the framing, install the windows, exterior doors, and roof. He believes he can start work this Thursday. Tomorrow we will sign paperwork and work out what materials need to be ordered. He is the same guy whose work we looked at and liked last weekend.
 
   / At Home In The Woods #958  
Obed:

You are braver than I to sit on that backhoe seat at that angle.

I think I would have re-graded the dirt so I could get the machine parallel to the wall (perpendicular to the house) and worked down hill from the house. (Hoe uphill, FEl downhill, travel downhill.)

I have a lot of clay at my house in CA -- good, hard adobe clay. If hand digging must be done, I have found that a small electric jackhammer like this one Makita HM1500B 42lb. Demolition Hammer | ToolBarn.com with a clay spade is at least 5 times, maybe ten times as effective as a mattock in loosening dry clay to a point where loose chunks can be shoveled.

New ones are expensive, but the productivity increase pays for it in about two weeks of digging.

Harbor Freight has something similar for much less money. I have never used it so I can't say how good it is.
 
   / At Home In The Woods #959  
Obed:

You are braver than I to sit on that backhoe seat at that angle.

I think I would have re-graded the dirt so I could get the machine parallel to the wall (perpendicular to the house) and worked down hill from the house. (Hoe uphill, FEl downhill, travel downhill.)

Like CurlyDave said. I dug all the way around the foundation of my last house to put in weeping tiles. Once you get used to digging to the side progress is pretty good. In a choice between hand digging clay or using the BH I would really try to make the BH do the work.:thumbsup:
 
   / At Home In The Woods #960  
If hand digging must be done, I have found that a small electric jackhammer like this one Makita HM1500B 42lb. Demolition Hammer | ToolBarn.com with a clay spade is at least 5 times, maybe ten times as effective as a mattock in loosening dry clay to a point where loose chunks can be shoveled. .

I have to Rotary hammers. A smaller SDS Makita that is very light and eas to drill small holes in concrete. And I have a bigger SDS Max Hitachi that is just a brute at going through concrete. Both have jack hammer modes and they work great at digging in hard clay. My Hitachi has the shovel bit that I just set it on the ground and squeeze the trigger. It just slides it's way into the hardest clay like it was nothing!!!! It goes through concrete almost as easily, but hard dirt is nothing for this tool

Hitachi DH40MRY Low-Vibration SDS-Max Rotary Hammer for sale at ToolKing.com!

Bosch Hammer Steel, 7/8 Shank, Clay Spade HS2269 | AceTool.com

Eddie
 

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