At Home In The Woods

[brin]

We have red clay soil. House is Superior brand walls, use 4" slotted pipe with a sock around it, at least 1' pea gravel, landscape cloth, then backfill with clay. Walls are sprayed with bituthene (black gunk). House has 4' overhangs, grade goes away from the house everywhere. Have a yard drains on one side to insure it all works.

The garage only has 1 side that gets rain/is exposed to the elements. I put a 4" slotted black PE pipe in a sock, pea gravel, landscape cloth, then backfilled with clay. The 4" pipe ties into the other footer drains. The goal was to keep the footer dry. Clay gives me runoff, footer drain takes care of what seeps in.

Where the 4" pipe leaves the footer, I transition into 3" smooth PVC drain pipe so it won't get damaged.

Where we had the full fill against the walls, I did another 18" of pea gravel, landscape cloth, then did the fill. That's two layers of cloth and the sock that the silt has to get past before the footer drain will get clogged.

Where I had pipes coming in from the outside, as I backfilled I built up a column of gravel until the pipes were covered. There was cloth vertically so the entire perimeter of the column was protected. That way there can be no build up of water pressure where the pipes come through the foundation wall. Covered the column with fabric, then clay. This is the sort of stuff you can do as the homeowner on site that is not likely to be done by various subcontractors.

All gutters dump into 4" smooth PVC to get the water well away from the house. Smooth PVC also means the gutter drains won't clog up. They also have the 1/4" per foot drop.

I'd take the area you dug out that was wet, put in the hard PVC drain pipe with the holes (the ones designed for septic systems), put a sock on it, a little gravel, cloth, then more gravel. You footer will be much dryer and it won't clog up. I'd go with the hard pipe because of how shallow it is and the extra pounding it will take from vehicles. Tie that into the other footer drains around your garage.

Pete

We built our house here in Georgia 5 yrs. ago and did exactly the same thing you post above...I mean exactly and tied all our downspouts into drain pipe buried and directing the water way out into the yard in different places. After 5 yrs..we have a dry basement..no leaks of any kind . We did have all of our poured basement foundation walls waterproofed and he gave it 2 coats but otherwise we did the same .

 

[EddieWalker]

I think having bricks below grade is just giving termites a path into the framing of the house. Motor is easy for them to get through, and how they get into homes every day. The concrete footings or brick ledge needs to come above grade. This is something that I would do regardless of what it looks like. Ten years from now, you will have termites if you have brick below grade.

While clay is excellent at holding water, it is also extremly good at holding water. If you have dry clay soil, just dig down a foot and you'll see it's moist. Even after months of no rain, clay will still have moisture in it once you dig past the hard crust on the surface.

I agree with the others that putting gravel in there will just create a place for water to sit. Filling with clay is better, but it's very hard to get it to compact hard enough to repel water and not act as a sponge. If it was me, I'd fill with clay, compact it as good as I could, and then cover it with a membrane of some sort to shed water over the area that was filled. I like 30 pound felt tar paper for this, but there are all sorts of options out there. Water is the enemy and in time, it will always win. It's just a matter of how hard you fight it and how long you keep up that fight.

Eddie

 

[firefighter9208]

Chris,
We installed a Quadra-Fire 7100 Wood Fireplace. Page 4 of the brochure has a good picture of the duct options. In addition to placing a hot air vent in the hallway, we ran a return duct and vent to the other end of the house to encourage circulation of the heated air through the house, very similar to the way HVAC systems work.

We were originally planning to install a Napolean fireplace. We had gotten a quotation from a local fireplace store. However, when it came time to do the framing, we needed the fireplace guy to come out and make sure we framed everything correctly for the fireplace and various options. Unfortunately, the fireplace guy was pretty busy and wouldn't even return our calls. The only other Napolean dealer was an hour away but had gone out of business. So we went with the Quadra-Fire instead.

The Quadra-Fire was a close second to the Napolean for us. The Napolean had one option we really liked but could not get with the Quadra-Fire. The Napolean has the option to put the fireplace fan in the ductwork. This option lets you put the noisy fan in some non-obtrusive location. The Quadra-Fire has the fan in the fireplace so you are forced to have the fan noise in your living room or den. That was the only thing about the Quadra-Fire we didn't really care for.

Obed

Thanks!!!! I figured it was a Napolean or Quadrafire. I know they are both very good units.


As far as the smoke detectors go. We have been in our house for 9 years. Next year all of our smoke detectors will be replaced. Thats makes about 15 to replace. I will also have ADT come out and replace the one hard wired detector that we put in the hallway outside our master bedroom. I think while they are here I'm going to have them add a hardwired one in the attic (split unit HVAC is in the attic) and one under the floor for the HVAC under there.

I wouldn't let ADT put the hardwired detector (monitored) in the kitchen. I've been on too many "structure fires" that were someone burning the toast on a Sunday morning. I had them put a heat sensor in the kitchen and the monitored "hardwired" detector outside the master bedroom in the hallway.

Here is a link to a study of "voice" smoke alarms vs. standard tone alarms. Comparison of a Personalized Parent Voice Smoke Alarm With a Conventional Residential Tone Smoke Alarm for Awakening Children -- Smith et al. 118 (4): 1623 -- Pediatrics

Here is a link to the Signal One voice smoke alarms. This is what I'm going to put in my children's rooms when I replace the current detectors. Amazon.com: SignalOne 012-504 Vocal Smoke Alarm, White: Health & Personal Care

Not a bad price for piece of mind.

Chris

 

[mikefromnh]

I think having bricks below grade is just giving termites a path into the framing of the house. Motor is easy for them to get through, and how they get into homes every day. The concrete footings or brick ledge needs to come above grade. This is something that I would do regardless of what it looks like. Ten years from now, you will have termites if you have brick below grade.

Eddie

How would you suggest he fix it?

Here in Maine we don't deal with termites, but brick below grade is still not a good idea. In older homes it was common to have granite foundations to grade and then double wall brick. Where homeowners allow the bricks to get buried (along driveways, or flowerbeds) the bricks will actually rot. Though it takes decades.

 

[EddieWalker]

I would pour more concrete so it's above grade. It can be stair stepped, or he can do it so it's all level. Concrete is solid enough that it will have to crack for the termites to get through it, and even then, it's unlikely to allow them access all the way to the framing. Morter cracks all the time, it's pourus and it seperates from the bricks. There are dozens, if not hundreds of paths for them to get though every brick house ever built. While prett, brick is terrible at keeping out bugs that want to get in.

Eddie

 

[Pops15]

Filling with clay is better, but it's very hard to get it to compact hard enough to repel water and not act as a sponge. If it was me, I'd fill with clay, compact it as good as I could, and then cover it with a membrane of some sort to shed water over the area that was filled. I like 30 pound felt tar paper for this, but there are all sorts of options out there. Water is the enemy and in time, it will always win. It's just a matter of how hard you fight it and how long you keep up that fight.

Eddie

I'd like to elaborate on a few points Eddie made. It's difficult to get any fill compacted as much as it needs to be. If you look at many 20 year old houses you'll see where the backfill has settled and often times has left a low area all the way around the house which basically acts as a big funnel to run the water around the foundation. It's important for landscape plants to be planted far enough away from the house so more fill can be added as the original fill settles.
I really like the idea of using a membrane to help keep surface water away from the house. We've used black 6 mil visqueen with good success.
We had a client in a 40 year old home that had gone through several contractors trying to eliminate water getting into their basement. It was a unique project that called for creative ideas because of the grade of the yard, patio location, etc. What we came up with was a wide, shallow trench along the house and sloped it towards the end of the house where the lot sloped away. We then glued rubber roofing to the foundation just below the siding, extended it outward, and then slightly upward. Basically we created a wide gutter in the ground. We ran the sump pump discharge on top of the rubber and down the slope past the house. We then filled the rubber lined trench with landscape stone. The result....after nearly 40 years of getting water in the basement several times a year there hasn't been a drop of water in the basement in 13 years!
Moral of the story....be diligent about keeping surface water away from your house!

 

[Coyote machine]

I think we're back to what I said originally: clay sucks for drainage!
Now, having established that point- I also suggested using Geotex fabric that is NON- permeable to keep the water running away from the foundation and attaching it high enough that no water can get behind it. Then covering it with washed gravel or crushed stone. Problem solved
Water cannot get past the membrane because it is NOT porous and it CAN be tightly sealed to the foundation wall. The water that hits the area in question will run through the stone or evaporate off it over time, depending on time of year, and no water will get to the foundation or footers.
I am 100% in agreement with Eddie too- it will be virtually impossible to get the clay to do what you want it to do without doing what it wants to do- act like a sponge and not seal the interface between your foundation and rainwater/runoff. After all you want to have this problem solved, not argue over what the easiest solution might be based on materials at hand(clay), yes?
One possible fabric solution might be what Home Depot used to, & possibly still sells: TriFlex 30, a roof top membrane made of polypropylene, (I believe), or a wider roll of Rooftop guard 2, a slightly different membrane that is 5'wide vs. 3' on the TriFlex 30. Ideally you would get a Geotex ;landscape NON- permeable fabric which might have to be bought from a commercial construction firm.
Good luck.

I'd like to elaborate on a few points Eddie made. It's difficult to get any fill compacted as much as it needs to be. If you look at many 20 year old houses you'll see where the backfill has settled and often times has left a low area all the way around the house which basically acts as a big funnel to run the water around the foundation. It's important for landscape plants to be planted far enough away from the house so more fill can be added as the original fill settles.
I really like the idea of using a membrane to help keep surface water away from the house. We've used black 6 mil visqueen with good success.
We had a client in a 40 year old home that had gone through several contractors trying to eliminate water getting into their basement. It was a unique project that called for creative ideas because of the grade of the yard, patio location, etc. What we came up with was a wide, shallow trench along the house and sloped it towards the end of the house where the lot sloped away. We then glued rubber roofing to the foundation just below the siding, extended it outward, and then slightly upward. Basically we created a wide gutter in the ground. We ran the sump pump discharge on top of the rubber and down the slope past the house. We then filled the rubber lined trench with landscape stone. The result....after nearly 40 years of getting water in the basement several times a year there hasn't been a drop of water in the basement in 13 years!
Moral of the story....be diligent about keeping surface water away from your house!

 

[PAGUY]

Obed - In the picture where you removed the gravel in front of the garage doors at the end of the ditch it looks like the ground on the side of the garage is below grade of the footer. If so wouldn't it pay to bury a drain pipe before you fill with clay?

Also in pics there is a treated lumber below the one garage door is that permanent or will that be removed before backfilling to foundation?

PAGUY

 

[Obed]

I removed the last of the gravel around the garage foundation tonight. It was more manual labor with a shovel, maddock, and hoe. I used the tractor's FEL as a wheelbarrow again.

The board under the garage door is pressure treated. It is there to protect the concrete from chipping. It is not permanent.

Here's the back side of the garage.

 

[Obed]

Obed - In the picture where you removed the gravel in front of the garage doors at the end of the ditch it looks like the ground on the side of the garage is below grade of the footer. If so wouldn't it pay to bury a drain pipe before you fill with clay?

Here are the options from best to worst.

• 1. Gravel with drain tile and drainage pipe away from house
• 2. Backfill with clay
• 3. Backfill with gravel without drain tile and drainage pipe

Additionally, I could apply a non-permeable membrane over the backfill to shed water away from the house. This membrane could be used with either of the 3 options above.

I don't think there's much question about which solution would do the best job. What I see as the question that needs to be answered is "How good is good enough?" Building a house is filled with decisions regarding money, time, effort, and trouble. If I chose the idealistic option for every issue, this house would cost a million dollars to build and would take forever to finish.

For me, Option 3 is out of the question because like Pops and Eddie mentioned, it will keep the footers wet. My guess is that it would be extremely rare in my area to find a house built by a GC that uses Option 1 around the main floor garage or the main floor of a house without a basement unless the grade of the lot runs toward that part of the house. And I'd be surprised if 1 out of 100 houses in this area have a membrane installed on grade around the house.

The question cannot be reasonably answered without considering the natural grade of the land where the house sits. The house sits along a ridge line. The natural grade steeply slopes away from the house in almost every direction. The house is naturally protected from water.

Obed