Spend my money on a welder.
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BlacknTan
Platinum Member
Well,as long as old timers[are you an old timer too?],like us are here,they will get at least two sides to it[probably 3-4 sides]
Yes, I guess I qualify as an "Old Timer".. LOL
I'm old enough to remember when "Made in Japan" was the hallmark for shoddily built products, and the Japanese turned that perception around 180 degrees in 50 years or so, to the point where that same stamp stands for quality..
In fairness, the Chinese may just do the same, but they're nowhere near there yet... Not by the products I see coming from China at this point in time.
EuropaChris
Silver Member
I don't think simply being "Chinese" is the cause of poor quality. They are more than capable of building anything either the USA or Japan can, and probably just as good, too.
What causes most Chinese goods to suffer is that USA companies saw the incredibly cheap labor costs over there along with Chinese government subsidies and the artificially low value of their currency and all the executives figured they could line their pockets with $$$.
Well, the Chinese certainly aren't stupid, and really don't care who rips off who's design, and they will sell anything to anyone that has money. This starts price wars among USA customers as well as amongst competing Chinese factories which forces down the quality/price of goods until the item being sold just barely meets the function for which it's being sold for, and sometimes not even that. Chinese suppliers will make an item to whatever quality level you pay for. You want cheap crap, they'll sell you cheap crap. They don't care.
At the same time, I bought a Tool Shop brand 4-1/2" angle grinder from Menards a few years ago for a project for $19.99 with a "lifetime" warranty. I figured I'd use it and throw it away. Well, that was 3 projects ago and it's still going strong. I take the gear cover off after each project and redistribute the "yak fat" grease (probably should get something good in there) and clean out the end cap/brush area. It's actually got ball bearings in it (both motor shaft front and rear and the output shaft). I don't like the switch on it much, but it has decent power and has already outlasted what I expected several times.
Besides, most if not all angle grinders under 100 bucks are made in China anyway, so the Tool Shop (Menards house cheapy brand) is probably real similar to a name brand grinder with some things cost reduced and no fancy name that has a big NASCAR or advertising budget. I'll go buy a Metabo if I want a decent angle grinder.
Chris
Mark @ Everlast
Advertiser
EuropaChris,
Your comment about the grinders reminded me of a trip I made a while back to local machine shop to get some water jet pieces I needed for some sawmill accessories that I make.
I pulled up to the front and there was a box FULL of grinder, in various states of disrepair. The owner was coming in for lunch when I was coming to the door. I saw Bosch, Milwaukee, DeWalt, Metabo, Harbor Freight, Hitachi and maybe something else. I asked him which brandy grinders hold up the longest. He said, "None of them, they all break in my line of work." I asked him to clarify, and he said that they all pretty much had problems. There were multiple copies of Metabo there..He said that it wasn't any better than the DeWalts. I said, well the HF probably is the worst, and he said, for the price he paid, they held up the best because he could buy 10 or 15 of them for one of the others and come out way ahead.
The local tech school bought a ton of grinders when some extra money was found in the budget. The new instructor loaded the shop with his personal favorite: Milwaukee. Those 12 amp grinders would burn up under the abuse those new recruits would dish out. A few lasted but some burned up in a matter of weeks...Each grinder had its in service date written on it.... Some lasted a while, but it was clear that the few DeWalt 7 ampers that were ther before the Milwaukees were still puttering away. The next round he ordered 10 amp DeWalts made in China....So far no failures.
As a side note, the Japanese products didn't take 50 years to improve their quality...There quality was up by the end of the 60's and into the 70's. The little CVCC made Honda famous, the datsun and toyota trucks from the 70's are sought after even now. My grandfather who was quite progressive at the time bought a datsun pickup in 1968. He drove it until the 2000's. He had been in the S Pacific in WWII, but was a man who saw through the putrification of war...and did not hold his feelings against the people he had fought against. That truck had over 400k...when he sold it. When he was working, he drove it 60 miles everyday to work and back. What has taken just as long is for the American Auto industry to catch up....just as long as it has taken for some Americans to realize what other Americans already knew.
Those little gray market Yanmars that are so popular and well adored by many began production in 1968 and finished in 1977 or 78...YM1600/1700/2000 type units.
Your comment about the grinders reminded me of a trip I made a while back to local machine shop to get some water jet pieces I needed for some sawmill accessories that I make.
I pulled up to the front and there was a box FULL of grinder, in various states of disrepair. The owner was coming in for lunch when I was coming to the door. I saw Bosch, Milwaukee, DeWalt, Metabo, Harbor Freight, Hitachi and maybe something else. I asked him which brandy grinders hold up the longest. He said, "None of them, they all break in my line of work." I asked him to clarify, and he said that they all pretty much had problems. There were multiple copies of Metabo there..He said that it wasn't any better than the DeWalts. I said, well the HF probably is the worst, and he said, for the price he paid, they held up the best because he could buy 10 or 15 of them for one of the others and come out way ahead.
The local tech school bought a ton of grinders when some extra money was found in the budget. The new instructor loaded the shop with his personal favorite: Milwaukee. Those 12 amp grinders would burn up under the abuse those new recruits would dish out. A few lasted but some burned up in a matter of weeks...Each grinder had its in service date written on it.... Some lasted a while, but it was clear that the few DeWalt 7 ampers that were ther before the Milwaukees were still puttering away. The next round he ordered 10 amp DeWalts made in China....So far no failures.
As a side note, the Japanese products didn't take 50 years to improve their quality...There quality was up by the end of the 60's and into the 70's. The little CVCC made Honda famous, the datsun and toyota trucks from the 70's are sought after even now. My grandfather who was quite progressive at the time bought a datsun pickup in 1968. He drove it until the 2000's. He had been in the S Pacific in WWII, but was a man who saw through the putrification of war...and did not hold his feelings against the people he had fought against. That truck had over 400k...when he sold it. When he was working, he drove it 60 miles everyday to work and back. What has taken just as long is for the American Auto industry to catch up....just as long as it has taken for some Americans to realize what other Americans already knew.
Those little gray market Yanmars that are so popular and well adored by many began production in 1968 and finished in 1977 or 78...YM1600/1700/2000 type units.
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Ok folks. Let me try saying this again.
1) I am not a professional welder
2) I am not going to spend anywhere near $1000 on a welder
3) I narrowed it down to two choices. If you have constructive input within the confines of my choices, feel free to speak up. If you are going to tell me that I should be buying a $1000 welder, keep it to yourself.
ANY welder, from ANY manufacturer in the sub $500 price range is going to be imported. That is just the facts of life.
If I decide to take up a career in welding, it will be a lot more reasonable to consider spending significantly more than my current budget. At that point, the calls from the peanut gallery to quadruple my budget do buy one of a particular color will be listened to.
And, please stop the ignorant Everlast bashing. Unless you have one, or have first hand dealings with them, you have no place at all to bash them because they don't have the right sticker on them to blow your skirt up.
The whole "will they be around in X years" argument is, frankly, stupid on something at this price point. I realize that I am not buying a top of the line welder. If I get 10 years out of it, or even 5 years out of it, I will be happy. Beyond that, if they have closed up shop, no big deal.
That being said, I am going to buy the Everlast. Sure, there are a ton of other folks making inverter welders. How many of them have bothered to show up here personally and address us and our questions? For that matter, when was the last time any of you had a Miller or Lincoln rep directly address your pre-sales questions? How many Miller or Lincoln reps do you have a direct number for? My guess is the number is somewhere around 0. Here they are, doing a TON of work for a $300 sale. I am supremely confident that the amount of after the sale support I will get from them is more than I could dream of getting from Miller or Lincoln. I would also wager that the % of my purchase going into US pockets is almost the same as with the other "US makers".
Anyhow, Everlast it is. Just gonna wait until a bit closer to payday. Sure a shootin', I spend my slush now, something will come up.
1) I am not a professional welder
2) I am not going to spend anywhere near $1000 on a welder
3) I narrowed it down to two choices. If you have constructive input within the confines of my choices, feel free to speak up. If you are going to tell me that I should be buying a $1000 welder, keep it to yourself.
ANY welder, from ANY manufacturer in the sub $500 price range is going to be imported. That is just the facts of life.
If I decide to take up a career in welding, it will be a lot more reasonable to consider spending significantly more than my current budget. At that point, the calls from the peanut gallery to quadruple my budget do buy one of a particular color will be listened to.
And, please stop the ignorant Everlast bashing. Unless you have one, or have first hand dealings with them, you have no place at all to bash them because they don't have the right sticker on them to blow your skirt up.
The whole "will they be around in X years" argument is, frankly, stupid on something at this price point. I realize that I am not buying a top of the line welder. If I get 10 years out of it, or even 5 years out of it, I will be happy. Beyond that, if they have closed up shop, no big deal.
That being said, I am going to buy the Everlast. Sure, there are a ton of other folks making inverter welders. How many of them have bothered to show up here personally and address us and our questions? For that matter, when was the last time any of you had a Miller or Lincoln rep directly address your pre-sales questions? How many Miller or Lincoln reps do you have a direct number for? My guess is the number is somewhere around 0. Here they are, doing a TON of work for a $300 sale. I am supremely confident that the amount of after the sale support I will get from them is more than I could dream of getting from Miller or Lincoln. I would also wager that the % of my purchase going into US pockets is almost the same as with the other "US makers".
Anyhow, Everlast it is. Just gonna wait until a bit closer to payday. Sure a shootin', I spend my slush now, something will come up.
dcyrilc
Elite Member
Well said.
As for something coming up if you were to spend your slush fund...
...that I would place a small wager on.
BlacknTan
Platinum Member
I learned a lesson a long time ago... You get what you pay for. It was a valid point then, and it's still a valid point today!
Nobody is selling a $1,000 weld machine for $300... NO ONE!
I personally don't care who buys what, but I do resent an importer buying the forum to promote substandard wares to an unsuspecting clientele..
With that said, I'll leave this thread and the Welding part of the forum until it once again becomes a place for discussion instead of merely an infomercial..
Nobody is selling a $1,000 weld machine for $300... NO ONE!
I personally don't care who buys what, but I do resent an importer buying the forum to promote substandard wares to an unsuspecting clientele..
With that said, I'll leave this thread and the Welding part of the forum until it once again becomes a place for discussion instead of merely an infomercial..
IXLR8
Veteran Member
I am debating MIG welders and have been watching this thread. I have narrowed my choices down to the Everlast 200 or the Miller 211. As I expect to fire this thing up about 3 times a year... I am having trouble swallowing the $1800 for the Miller, equipped as I want it vs the $980 for the Everlast, equipped the same way. I have also gotten my questions answered much better via PM with Everlast than I did with the Miller dealer in person.
As soon as my slush fund allows... Everlast is getting my vote.
wvpolekat-- When you get your unit in... please let us know how you like it... pros and cons
Now think about it a little wv pole cat man,,[by the way,I'm a born and bred wv guy my self],you get on a web page on the internet and you[who doesn't know anything about welding,or welding machines] ask what and where and how much,than you tell somebody [like me] who has been in the welding trade for 30+ years to keep their mouth shut and not offer you advise,well,now. You must not have many things figured out,and one would be its not nice to be rude.:confused2:[tell me where I'm wrong here somebody?? [by the way,have done alot of welding around buckhannon,back in late 70's and early 80's,welding on gas pipelines and hooking up gas wells]
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I never told anyone to keep their mouth shut. I just want things to be on topic. I didn't ask "what and where and how much", I asked between two welders, neither of which are a Miller, and neither of which are over $500, which is what everyone is pushing me towards because they "know better". I know I am buying at the lower end of the price range, and I am ok with that. Notice that the $99 HF special wasn't in the list? If you or any other helpful person wants to donate to the fund to buy your brand, I would gladly accept it. I never said I know nothing about welders or welding. I have welded before in my years working in shops. I know who the big players are, but they are out of my budget and too much money for my needs. Why is that so darn hard to understand? I have yet to have one single "professional" give me a REAL reason to go with the "big" names beyond brand loyalty and the possibility of parts/support down the road (which Everlast even directly addressed). Nobody saying to stay away from Everlast has, as far as I can tell ever even put their own eyes or hands on them.
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