For the college folks

[mostly_gas]

In my younger days while taking A.P. engineering classes in high school the teacher (structural engineer) said that:
"Most of what you learn here you will or would be able to look up in books in real life. So. In years to come all you have to remember is where we can find the books."

Books are not always right and become dated after time.
I have worked on a number of progressive dies with reverse draws. Not well documented.
Then there is understanding the information well enough to apply it correctly. Had a test where we had an equation derived for a gas and asked us to work the problem with aluminum. Half point just for understanding the equation did not apply .

 

[Rob-D]

Rob, I don't think anyone is "knocking college" but as you said "you have to take the good with the bad" so some of us have mentioned some of what we consider the bad (personal opinions), just as we sometimes talk about things we don't like about some of our tractors; say for instance, the quarter inching valve.:laughing:

OK Bird, fair enough.
Rob

 

[RoyJackson]

By far, the most valuable classes I took for my engineering degree were English. They were valuable, not because I enjoyed them or because they exposed me to things I would not otherwise have experienced, but because they taught me useful communication skills that I could apply to my career. The English classes have helped put food on the table my entire adult life.

Good point...
My most important classes were Technical Writing and Psychology. I'm in Quality Assurance (normally a Quality Engineer) so I work with quite a few engineering types. They may or may not be good engineers, but most could not communicate to non-technical types. Spell Check should be mandatory on the computers used by engineers (btw, Spell Check should be mandatory on my computer too. I spell quite well, but I am a seriously poor typist..."Typos Roy" they call me).
As a QE, it's normally most important to be a good facilitator/communicator since that's 50-60 percent of the job.
But as I wrote in my first post in this thread...the great majority of jobs do not require a degree, even if that's a requirement for the position.

 

[RoyJackson]

I would say bashing the diversity of education is a sad thing. The usefulness of some courses in real life is questionable, but YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO CHOOSE!!!

The problem is "higher education" has, in some cases, become the "end" rather then the means to get there.
Real quick example...there's a company in York which recently fired most of their managers. Was it because they were doing a bad job? No...but the company HR Manager (newly hired) convinced upper management that the positions required degrees. Is that going to improve the company? Doubt it. It is going to result in lawsuits against the company though. If the HR Manager had been smart, she'd have done this through attrition rather then termination.

When I first got into manufacturing in the late 1970's (after 10 years in the Navy), most positions in mid-level management required a degree or equivalent experience. That made sense. A new grad can learn the job, or you hire a person with adequate experience to handle the position.

Whenever I see an advertised position that has a 4 year degree requirement (but no particular type of degree, such as ME, IE or something of that nature), I know the job doesn't really require a degree to accomplish it. What the company is really looking for is someone who can read and write. Since we seem to be graduating quite a few functional illiterates from high schools now (thanks to lowering of standards), I suppose I see a degree of justification for that degree requirement.
However, the result from that degree requirement can have humorous results. I've worked for more then one Quality Engineer (this was before I moved up the food chain) who had degrees unrelated to their position (Zoology was one...some kind of Literature degree was another). Neither of those folks could interpret a mechanical drawing or technical specification. Believe me, we had fun with them!

Long post...time to go get a beer...

 

[sld]

Part of the benefit of going to college is learning how to learn.

 

[RoyJackson]

Part of the benefit of going to college is learning how to learn.

You do that in junior and senior high school...even elementry school for the basics.

One thing you see with a number of degreed folks is "Book Smart, Shop Stupid". Best college can do is teach theory (remember, except for some community colleges, most "educators" haven't worked in the real world).

 

[eepete]

A group I was in had a programmer with a masters in Computer Science. We hired a temp for office work who had a masters in Art. She became very upset when she learned that she made less than the guy with the masters in CS, stating that "we both have a masters, we should both get the same pay".

I'd say something was left out of her education.

The test equipment manufacturer Tektronics hired a lot of Bachelors of Science in Electrical Engineering. They said after a few years they were good technicians. What they were looking for with the degree is someone who had learned how to learn stuff, learned how to get things done on a schedule, and as a side aspect knew a few things about electrical engineering. So part of any educations, be it a two year community collage, four year accredited school, or more is you've proved that when someone says "squat and deliver" you can do it, and if you can't you can learn how to do it.

Regarding poetry classes and the like, it's good that schools give you the opportunity to take such things. It's bad when it's a requirement. I got nothing out of the required phycology (pronounce "sigh-col-a-gee", stuff that goes on in your head) and history courses. Note that I can't spell at all. I can't even get close enough with phycology to get a good hit on the spell checker (I googled "abnormal phycology" and it gave me the right spelling - gets back to the know where the tools and books are concept). I had to take the English composition courses, and agree with Obed's assessment. Painful, but good for geeks to learn how to write stuff. I got A for content, D for spelling, had to type the papers on a typewrite many times because the spelling errors made it impossible to just correct a word (too many letters wrong). So I hated the courses, but I think it's important to have some of that stuff available. If it's mandatory, it should be a skill you can actually use as part of your job.

Community Colleges are a great deal. A lot of kids here get out of high school, float around, and if they haven't killed themselves find something they like to do. Then they have a place to go and learn how to do it. I really hate that so many high schools have dropped vocational training for the trades. At some point in high school many (not all) students should be able to decide if they are on a "collage track" or a "vocational track", and those tracks should be given equal merit in society. Germany does a superb job of this. Oh well, good tread, I'm through venting.

Pete

 

[user.69169]

Neighbor lady down the road here is a wodow with 2 daughters. Oldest daughter she spent alot of money sending off to college to study makeup for television. I just wonderd how many jobs there were in that business but I didn't say cause it weren't my money. The girl lasted about a year i college and then needed to take time off to decompress whatever that means. She must have decom a little too far cause last heard from she was learning about her new carear reporting to a parole offocer for passing counterfit and thinking she was a princess.

The second girl stayed in school and some counselor set her up to go to a place called Full Sail Colege in Florida where she suppose to learn to be a band and concert manager in 3 years. Her mother hauls her down there and hangs around to see what the deal is for a month, comes back all thrilled her baby doing so well. Kid graduates after while and comes back with the degree and is just amazed no jobs exist in her field. Guess what I coulda told you that, and I didn't have to spend a dollar to find out. Know what else I coulda told you, you were in the explorer scout program at the Fire Department, you learned to be a fireman and a medic, and being female you could have got a job. Now she got a carear watching soap operas, and figuring out how to get back in college. These kids need a good swift kick and their parents need a clubbing for letting the kids do the crap without thinking it through.

Been thnking on this here thread, and it come to me I knew a lot of steering wheel holders called themselves drivers over the last 20 years who had degrees in things they couldn't get jobs at. People need to learn a thing or 2 about wanting and knowing what can be done.

 

[RoyJackson]

...Note that I can't spell at all. I can't even get close enough with phycology to get a good hit on the spell checker (I googled "abnormal phycology" and it gave me the right spelling - gets back to the know where the tools and books are concept). I had to take the English composition courses, and agree with Obed's assessment. Painful, but good for geeks to learn how to write stuff. I got A for content, D for spelling, had to type the papers on a typewrite many times because the spelling errors made it impossible to just correct a word (too many letters wrong). So I hated the courses, but I think it's important to have some of that stuff available. If it's mandatory, it should be a skill you can actually use as part of your job.

Pete

Psychology...don't forget the "S" and try spelling it phonetically.

As far as typing....I'm so bad at typing...well, pretty pathetic.
Before computers and word processors, we had typewriters and correction fluid. Believe me, I spent so much money on correction fluid and other types of correction media, I should have bought stock in those companies.

 

[Mike Costello]

Neighbor lady down the road here is a wodow with 2 daughters. Oldest daughter she spent alot of money sending off to college to study makeup for television. I just wonderd how many jobs there were in that business but I didn't say cause it weren't my money. The girl lasted about a year i college and then needed to take time off to decompress whatever that means. She must have decom a little too far cause last heard from she was learning about her new carear reporting to a parole offocer for passing counterfit and thinking she was a princess.

The second girl stayed in school and some counselor set her up to go to a place called Full Sail Colege in Florida where she suppose to learn to be a band and concert manager in 3 years. Her mother hauls her down there and hangs around to see what the deal is for a month, comes back all thrilled her baby doing so well. Kid graduates after while and comes back with the degree and is just amazed no jobs exist in her field. Guess what I coulda told you that, and I didn't have to spend a dollar to find out. Know what else I coulda told you, you were in the explorer scout program at the Fire Department, you learned to be a fireman and a medic, and being female you could have got a job. Now she got a carear watching soap operas, and figuring out how to get back in college. These kids need a good swift kick and their parents need a clubbing for letting the kids do the crap without thinking it through.

Been thnking on this here thread, and it come to me I knew a lot of steering wheel holders called themselves drivers over the last 20 years who had degrees in things they couldn't get jobs at. People need to learn a thing or 2 about wanting and knowing what can be done.

Hey (removed)--Your mastery of the spoken word seems to have improved considerably. No offense meant, your narratives about Ethylene are hilariously entertaining. You also have a keen eye observing the human condition.