What causes flip overs?

/ What causes flip overs? #22  
Bear with me, but in my mind I'm thinking that since the rear wheels aren't moving but you are giving it the gas, is the tractor actually "riding around it's own axle," so to speak? Is that why it happens so fast?
Thats correct, however it doesnt just happen like that: The friction of the rear wheels to the ground alone, arent enough to create enough moment to flip the tractor: You first must get all the tractors weight on the rear axle (front wheels off the ground) to get the grip you need to flip it, or the tires will just spin out.

This needs another factor: weight transfer. If you hook the chain above the centerline of the rear axle, you are creating leverage to pull the front axle up, which gives more grip, enough to backflip without spinning the tires.
In general, if you hook the chain at or below the centerline of the rear axle, backflip on flat ground is impossible.
If you hook it up just a little above the rear axle center line, you'll get some weight transfer, and the front end gets up a little, which in turn puts the drawbar down: So when the drawbar gets at the same height as the centerline of the rear axle, this effect is zero.

It gets dangerous when you hook up the drawbar so high, that the front end gets up way above the ground, shifting its own center of gravity closer to the rear axle.

My preferred method for heavy lugging is to use the 3pt bucket as ballast, and hook the chain to the top link A frame. It gives ballast for extra traction, and serves as a backflip limiter as well. I can control the amount of weight transfer by lowering or lifting the 3pt.

When not using the 3pt bucket, i pull from the lowest top link hole. mine has four holes, the lowest is about 6 inches above the rear axle centerline, which stops a backflip when the front wheels are less than 2 feet off the ground. this gives the most traction without getting unsafe.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #23  
I had a neighbor just about get killed pulling from his FEL in reverse. He was on a NH, about 30 hp, and the rear wheels came up. He panicked and pushed in the clutch. It slammed to the ground so violently his foot slipped off the clutch and it went though this cycle 3 to 4 times before he could get it under control.
...So he didnt think of lowering the FEL ?? I assume he pulled in high range ?

It allways seems to be that people that dont have the operating hours (experience) to respond to the unexpected, mostly do crazy things in high range which gives them even less time to think....
 
/ What causes flip overs? #24  
Here's another thing to be aware of, especially you guys who live in cold climate. If you leave your tractor out overnight under certain condition (muddy ground and freezing at night) and the tires freeze to the ground, you can flip the tractor over when you start up in a forward gear. You should always start out in a reverse gear under these conditions. I have heard of people actually parking their tractors with the nose to tree or a barn to make sure they don't forget and drive forward.

Yes, except you have it backwards. Driving off forward would only shove the nose of the tractor into the ground if the rear wheels are held fast and cannot turn. If you try to move first in reverse in that scenario, you could turn a tractor over backwards. The tires would be trying to rotate downward on their back side (back of the tractor) and that force could raise the front of the tractor over backwards. Nosing into a tree or barn would be the absolute WORST thing you could do if this was a concern. If anything, you'd back against something assuring that you would first drive forward if you weren't thinking about it when you got on the tractor and drove off.

*EDIT*
See post after Beppington's post.
 
Last edited:
/ What causes flip overs? #25  
Yes, except you have it backwards. Driving off forward would only shove the nose of the tractor into the ground if the rear wheels are held fast and cannot turn. If you try to move first in reverse in that scenario, you could turn a tractor over backwards. The tires would be trying to rotate downward on their back side (back of the tractor) and that force could raise the front of the tractor over backwards. Nosing into a tree or barn would be the absolute WORST thing you could do if this was a concern. If anything, you'd back against something assuring that you would first drive forward if you weren't thinking about it when you got on the tractor and drove off.

Pretty sure a re-think is needed here :thumbsup:

Think top-fuel dragster or funny car doing a wheelie.

Or a motorcycle popping the clutch ... When you pop the clutch, either the tire(s) will spin ... or the front pops up.

I get messed up on these things, too.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #26  
Pretty sure a re-think is needed here :thumbsup:

Think top-fuel dragster or funny car doing a wheelie.

Or a motorcycle popping the clutch ... When you pop the clutch, either the tire(s) will spin ... or the front pops up.

I get messed up on these things, too.

Um, I do believe you are correct and I even demonstrated this to a friend using his R/C truck several years ago. Can I blame it on a senior moment? The friend swore the opposite and I attached the rear tires of his R/C truck to a 2X8 board with hose clamps and told him to try to back it up. Instead, he said he wasn't going to ruin his truck and floored it in forward gear. It immediately flipped on it's back so hard that it shattered the body of his R/C truck. Clearly he saw what happened. Maybe he channeled the backward information to me on the last post. :eek:
 
/ What causes flip overs? #27  
Having owned a Farmall A that was cracked in half (before I got it) being pulled from the front end when the rears were frozen in, I highly recommend parking where a puddle won't freeze the tires to the ground.
Jim
 
/ What causes flip overs? #28  
Having owned a Farmall A that was cracked in half (before I got it) being pulled from the front end when the rears were frozen in, I highly recommend parking where a puddle won't freeze the tires to the ground.
Jim

LOL, I agree. In high school I had a VW Beetle with the "auto stick" transmission. The temps dropped after rain turned to snow and it literally didn't have enough power to do anything. It just sat there and grunted. The only thing that got it out was the heat from the rear air cooled engine finally melted the ice enough to free it. Man, it was one powerful beast with it's single port 1500cc engine. Literally, I could sit still on ice, floor it taking off, and it wouldn't spin a tire! What a monster. There were clearly no dangers of it doing any sort of flips from this issue. LOL!
 
/ What causes flip overs? #29  
It's not just VW's, Dargo. I froze the front tires of a 3/4 ton crew cab (2wd) into a puddle and had to get the neighbour to pull me out. The back tires just spun. Couldn't even get enough momentum to rock it.

Freezing the back tires of a tractor into the ground will cause the front end to come up when you move forward. I've never flipped one over, but I have managed a small wheelie. Scary enough to make me more careful, at any rate.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #30  
LOL, I agree. In high school I had a VW Beetle with the "auto stick" transmission. The temps dropped after rain turned to snow and it literally didn't have enough power to do anything. It just sat there and grunted. The only thing that got it out was the heat from the rear air cooled engine finally melted the ice enough to free it. Man, it was one powerful beast with it's single port 1500cc engine. Literally, I could sit still on ice, floor it taking off, and it wouldn't spin a tire! What a monster. There were clearly no dangers of it doing any sort of flips from this issue. LOL!

Man, I hated that car. The clutch was vacuum operated, so if the engine wasn't running you were in permanent neutral. The only standard you couldn't push start.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #32  
Using the weight of the falling tractor to jump the sled - I've done that! Don't recommend it to others of course, and it's hard on the clutch, I'm sure. Yes, he's having fun.
Jim
 
/ What causes flip overs? #33  
This needs another factor: weight transfer. If you hook the chain above the centerline of the rear axle, you are creating leverage to pull the front axle up, which gives more grip, enough to backflip without spinning the tires.
In general, if you hook the chain at or below the centerline of the rear axle, backflip on flat ground is impossible.

The fact is that, unless you hook up at ground contact level, back flip is possible. The point of rotation of the tractor is at ground contact. Needless to say that the lower you hook up the harder it is to flip. So your statement that the flip is impossible should say flip is unlikely but not impossible. Flip is possible such as in the tire frozen to the ground scenario.

Another thing to consider is how far behind of the rear axle you connect the load (Considering rigid tow bar.) As the tractor starts lifting front the attachment point goes lower decreasing possibility of back flip.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #34  
I've finally found the rather relevant video that I'd been looking for.

Here you go... With No ROPS either :confused2: Oh well... he seems happy.

YouTube - albanian mad tractor rider

That was a perfect example of what people on here are saying.

At the end of the video, you can see that the logs are attached to the 3pt.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #35  
The frame mounted drawbar is almost completely safe if its end extends outside the circle made by the rear tires. As the tractor rears up the end of the drawbar will come down to the ground reducing tip leverage to zero.
larry

FYI mine does not.
Are you sure?:confused: What tractor is that? I cant imagine it on an L Kubota. Even the one on the BX1500 does. Note that I did not mean that it extends back behind a line drawn across at axle level. ... But rather, a perpendicular measurement from the axle rearward and downward to the drawbar pull point should be greater than tire radius.
larry
 
/ What causes flip overs? #36  
The fact is that, unless you hook up at ground contact level, back flip is possible. The point of rotation of the tractor is at ground contact. Needless to say that the lower you hook up the harder it is to flip. So your statement that the flip is impossible should say flip is unlikely but not impossible. Flip is possible such as in the tire frozen to the ground scenario.

Another thing to consider is how far behind of the rear axle you connect the load (Considering rigid tow bar.) As the tractor starts lifting front the attachment point goes lower decreasing possibility of back flip.
Yaay! :thumbsup: The frozen tire thing is a bit different tho, as in that case the tire cannot move and the tractor just rotates around it. However, if a pullchain were attached to the rigid towbar in that case it would still stop backtip in just the way you describe - by going to ground. It occurs to me that the drawbar motion is forward and down relative to the axle and the axle serving a frozen tire is fixed. So the chain trys to force the tractor to move backward as it tips. This leads me to posit that, with just the right initial chain slack, and the tire remaining glued, you could end up with a tractor rared up beyond its balance point and sitting there stably. :eek:
larry
 
/ What causes flip overs? #37  
The "cause" in 99% of flips is operator error. You've got to be doing something messed up to flip a tractor. Use your head. Know the limitations of your machine and yourself. Safety first.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #38  
The "cause" in 99% of flips is operator error. You've got to be doing something messed up to flip a tractor. Use your head. Know the limitations of your machine and yourself. Safety first.
Not trying to be snotty here, but it is 100% of the time 'operator error'

Tractors don't tend to flip themselves, just like 'guns don't kill people':thumbsup:
 
/ What causes flip overs? #39  
I allowed 1% for crazy mechanical failure. Lol.
 
/ What causes flip overs? #40  
Never thought about that but can see how it can happen. Good mucky mud frozen is like concrete.

First rear rollover I ever read about (TBN, about 10 years ago, I'd guess) was a farmer who left his machine out in a field...tires froze to the ground. IIRC, this was in Nebraska.
Ever since then, I've always used reverse first, if the tractor (all mine have been geared transmissions) was left outside.
 

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