New Heating System Install

[mrpoppy58]

I am remodeling my house and in the meantime installing new duct work and a new heating/ac system. Just wondering what you guys are using.

Have a few different quotes. Some are quoting an oil furnace with external ac unit only, other are quoting a heat pump like ac unit with oil backup essentially. Anyone out there have a setup like either of these? Does the heat pump type setup save at all on fuel or isnt it worth the extra cost of a few grand to get? From my research it appears as if the heat pump unit is only around 35k BTUs in heat or ac mode.

Thanks for any input.

In 2009 We installed a Three ton Trane Heat Pump. We installed an Adams condensing Fuel Oil Furnace for backup. It is 96% efficent and We are well pleased with it. We do not have access to natural Gas and Propane is very expensive around here. We have heated with Fuel Oil since 1965. This is the best Furnace we have had. Have a good Day.

 

[scott_vt]

Second on the list was liability for oil spills, escalating insurance if you heat with oil, and having to replace a tank every 10 years.

Sean

Good Afternoon Sean,
Im not sure where you got that info !

#1 The liability of a spill is squarely on the oil companies shoulders !

#2 Escalating insurance on using oil heat ? Never heard that one before...

#3 The typical 275 gallon home oil tank probablly gets replaced every 30 years and some have gone longer !

I dont heat with oil,so no preference to it, I use a combination of propane, electric and of course my woodstove.....

I just feel there is some false info there JMO...

 

[Zxyrthe]

I failed to mention that we also use a woodstove throughout the fall and winter but the way the house is setup, it only really heats one half of the home (~3000 sq. ft.; 100 years old). Cooling is a giant a/c window unit that refrigerates the entire living room but does a good job of cooling the rest of the house.

Our monthly average energy cost (oil and electric) is about $360 but that's for a ton of stuff: electric baseboard in one building, garage fridge and freezer, etc.

I'm always looking for ways to dial it all down but as observed here, the implementation costs can be so high that you never see a return on the investment.

 

[Gator6x4]

A heating Contractor told me the Heat Pump was the most efficient way to heat when the temperature stays above 41 degrees. Below that and the Heat Strips kick in. His advice was to install a Heat Pump as primary, without heat coils and then install a gas or oil furnace to become primary when the temperature drops below 41 degree. Everything is controlled by sensors and a programmable thermostat.

 

[Chilly807]

Good Afternoon Sean,
Im not sure where you got that info !

#1 The liability of a spill is squarely on the oil companies shoulders !

#2 Escalating insurance on using oil heat ? Never heard that one before...

#3 The typical 275 gallon home oil tank probablly gets replaced every 30 years and some have gone longer !

I dont heat with oil,so no preference to it, I use a combination of propane, electric and of course my woodstove.....

I just feel there is some false info there JMO...

In that case, don't move to Canada..:laughing:

1) Once the oil has been delivered to you, you (or your insurance company) is responsible should the tank fail, or oil leak out by other means.

2) I receive a 15% insurance discount by using electricity to heat my home. I consider that a penalty for NOT using electricity.

3) I agree that most tanks are good for much longer than 10 years. However, you will be denied insurance coverage if your tank is older than 10 years. I don't know about you, but at this stage of life, I need home insurance.

I'd be surprised if the situation was much different in the US, if it isn't there already I suspect it's only a matter of time.

Sean

 

[Chilly807]

A heating Contractor told me the Heat Pump was the most efficient way to heat when the temperature stays above 41 degrees. Below that and the Heat Strips kick in. His advice was to install a Heat Pump as primary, without heat coils and then install a gas or oil furnace to become primary when the temperature drops below 41 degree. Everything is controlled by sensors and a programmable thermostat.

That's one of the reasons we went with a geothermal system, the heat source (ground) stays at a relatively constant temperature year-round. We expect to see the difference in cost between the geothermal and most any other system absorbed over the first 5-7 years we're in the house.

Cost-wise, the prices seem to have really soared in the past three years since we built our house. Our total system cost (for new construction) was slightly over 20K, most quotes today seem to be over 30K..

Sean

 

[KTurner]

#1 The liability of a spill is squarely on the oil companies shoulders !

Every cost that any business/corporation has to pay is eventually paid by their customers in the form of higher prices, whether that cost is raw goods prices, cost of labor, insurance, transportation, more taxes, more regulation, etc. They may be able to absorb increased costs for a while, but it will eventually put them out of business.

But I think he was talking about homeowners insurance being more expensive due to the possibility of the homeowner's oil tank springing a leak and having 200+ gallons of oil spill onto/into the ground.

Keith

 

[Carl_NH]

Thats one of the reasons I replaced my 15 YO steel tank with a Roth double wall poly internal tank and galvanized exterior tank with leak sensors. Roth provides a $1M guarantee against leakage and are only top ported. There is really no way for the Roth tank to leak unless it is ruptured or damaged by external forces.

 

[dex3361]

I've been looking into this as well. I'm not sure a heat pump will be that beneficial in PA. And while expensive, oil will get you more bang for the buck than electric heat. However, the most cost effective (loosely-speaking) seems to be natural gas.

When comparing BTUs, remember to consider efficiency. While I get more BTUs per dollar from oil than electric (heat), my oil furnace is rated at 85% efficiency. so 15% of the heat goes out the flue. That means I'm only getting about 160 "gallons" of heat out my 200 gallon oil tank.

I've attached a spreadsheet that will calculate and compare oil, electric and gas and factor in efficiency.

fwiw - if oil hits $4 per gallon and electric no hire than $0.12 per kWh then it's about the same for me. I'm not sure about PA but electric rates in Connecticut are crazy steep.

Good luck.

Looked over the spread sheet and I think there is a discrepancy in the electrical. You show the electrical as 1 KW of heat for 1 KW of electricity used. That would be true for electric resistance heat but a heat pump would give 2 KW of heat for 1 KW of electricity even at 5 degrees F outdoor temp. The warmer it gets the better the ratio gets all the way up to more than 4KW of heat for 1 KW of electricity used.

 

[Chilly807]

Looked over the spread sheet and I think there is a discrepancy in the electrical. You show the electrical as 1 KW of heat for 1 KW of electricity used. That would be true for electric resistance heat but a heat pump would give 2 KW of heat for 1 KW of electricity even at 5 degrees F outdoor temp. The warmer it gets the better the ratio gets all the way up to more than 4KW of heat for 1 KW of electricity used.

Exactly right.. most geothermal systems are based on an efficiency of 350% under ideal conditions.

Sean