why one should ALWAYS carry your weapon

[Bird]

I feel like I live on a different planet. Here (New Zealand) it is strictly forbidden for any individual to own a hand gun or automatic rifle, except for those holding special licenses (such as collectors) which are issued by the police after an extensive vetting process. Only once in my life have I seen a police officer carrying a handgun. It is very rare to see guns of any sort being carried by police, let alone members of the public.
Guns here in private ownership are generally limited to semi automatic rifles and shotguns for pest control and sport hunting.
Keeping a gun for personal protection is unheard of (or certainly not talked about in public). I guess it's a bit like wife swapping, something you only talk about with other people doing the same thing.

Our petrol (gasoline) might be twice the price of yours, but I think that's a small price to pay to live in a gun free society.

You say only once you've seen a police officer carrying a handgun, so it may be that they don't carry them, or it may be that they carry them concealed. Johannesburg, South Africa used to have (and may still have, for all I know) a separate traffic police from their criminal police. And I became friends with a high ranking officer in the traffic police. They wore uniforms, but officially no guns. However, while he was in this country, he bought a new handgun to take home. He said, while it was a violation of their rules, many of them carried concealed handguns.

 

[RoyJackson]

so what does all this legal stuff realy mean to a novice ?

It might mean being a hero after a shooting, or going to jail for 25 years...
Know your state laws!

 

[Deere Dude]

About 10 years ago some scumbag was being a nuisance outside of a private residence. If I remember right, he was doing something at the end of the driveway (in town), but the homeowner, an older gentleman walks out of the front door with a gun in his hand to confront the nuisance. The troublemaker saw the gun and immediately pulled out his gun and shot the man dead.

What I seem to be understanding is, if carrying is a need, whip it out only when you want to stop the immediate threat and can't retreat and then don't pull it out for show, just shoot. Don't shoot to kill, just aim for center mass a few times. If you think you are in grave danger, you better be sure about it, and then at least your conscience will be clear no matter how it ends up with the law. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Fixemall]

I love this country with all my heart and soul because it has three essential elements that are guaranteed by our Constitution...The Ballot Box, The Jury Box and The Ammo Box! Anyone who does not love this place and believe in our Constitution and guaranteed freedoms should get on a one way flight, they leave every hour.

Anyone foolish enough to think that laws against guns will hurt anyone but the law abiding citizen should be on a flight too!

Guns are a tool just like a wrench or chainsaw, they are dangerous if in untrained hands but necessary to perform certain jobs.

 

[yooper1]

The article I have linked below shows the main reason why one should carry:

Mobs strip and rob people in third night of riots in London and across England | thetelegraph.com.au

Mobs strip and rob people in third night of riots in London and across England

A young man is shown being forced to hand over all of his clothes after appearing to be stripped naked during the third night of lawless riots.

Another picture which emerged shows an unnamed woman completely naked next to a police officer after apparently having her clothes taken from her.

With England's gun laws, no one was able to protect themselves and found out (as we all should know) that police are "reactive" and not proactive. They only show up after a problem has developed, usually never before

 

[yooper1]

<snip>

What I seem to be understanding is, if carrying is a need, whip it out only when you want to stop the immediate threat and can't retreat and then don't pull it out for show, just shoot.

I hope EVERYONE who carries (and owners who may not carry) and has had any training would know this automatically. Our trainer drilled it into our heads that the weapon ONLY comes out if you need to use it at that moment. Not to wave around and show off. Not to fire warning shots....ONLY to stop an immediate threat that in your mind, had no other solution.

If anyone had any training paid or free and you were not told this....you were jipped and you may want to ask for a refund, because shooting the gun is not the main thing....using your head is the main thing

 

[tungularafishcamp]

What is justifiable?

What a person thinks is a justifiable act might not match the law.

Knowing the law HOPEFULLY will keep on out of trouble but not always.

Just because the law says you can do something, does not mean you should.

Over in the best gun thread I mentioned some of this stuff and cases where people used deadly force, some well within the law, and the results of their actions.

You see a woman in a parking lot screaming and struggling with a man who is beating and dragging her into a car. He has a knife in his hand. Do you shoot the man? Do you go after him with no weapon when he has a knife? What does the law say you can do? What do YOU think YOU should do?

What if there was no knife, does that change your reaction?

Knowing the law helps you decide what to do.

No answers are expected to the questions. They are to make one think a bit. State law could very well impact what one does.

I heard many years ago that the FBI only allows their agents to use deadly force if a life is threatened. Many years ago I had a firearms course taught by a retired FBI firearms instructor so I guess that is where I heard it. Me thinks that was/is a real good policy.

Later,
Dan

I was in a restaurant in Florida many years ago having dinner with my first wife about closing time. Two guys, young middle eastern college students (my guess) ran in yelling he is beating her come quick. I followed them back outside where a guy was slapping a woman around trying to put her in a car. Being much younger and dumber, I approached them, told him to let her go and why dont they both come back inside, at which point he attacked me. The students take off. Of course while I am fighting him she jumps on my back, I throw her off and about that time the leo's arrive. He is a local, I am not, he tells them I attacked his girlfriend which she verifys, I am handcuffed and put in the patrol car and would have been hauled off if the waitress who had been watching from inside with my wife had not come out and told the cop the true story. The cops let everyone go, and we continued on our honeymoon, and while I get a chuckle thinking about it now, I wonder how it would have turned out if someone or everyone would have had a gun?

 

[JB4310]

Know your state laws!

I still say it comes down to basic common sense, this short excerpt from our statutes would cover 99% of the situations.

" ...except that deadly physical force may not be used unless the actor reasonably believes that such other person is (1) using or about to use deadly physical force, or (2) inflicting or about to inflict great bodily harm."

About 10 years ago some scumbag was being a nuisance outside of a private residence. If I remember right, he was doing something at the end of the driveway (in town), but the homeowner, an older gentleman walks out of the front door with a gun in his hand to confront the nuisance. The troublemaker saw the gun and immediately pulled out his gun and shot the man dead.

That's an interesting case study. Since you never lose your right to self defense even if you are the aggressor (unless in police custody).
Since even though the scumbag may of started the trouble it could be said that the homeowner escalated it with the threat of a firearm.

Wonder how that played out in court???

I hope EVERYONE who carries (and owners who may not carry) and has had any training would know this automatically. Our trainer drilled it into our heads that the weapon ONLY comes out if you need to use it at that moment. Not to wave around and show off. Not to fire warning shots....ONLY to stop an immediate threat that in your mind, had no other solution.

Not sure what you mean by "use it at that moment"?
If you mean don't take it out unless you are going to shoot someone,
I don't agree, true you could use that approach in life, but for me before I pull the trigger I'm going to give them a choice to stop the aggression, if possible.

Even the LEO,s do that still (sometimes )

When you say use it at that moment, you may be agreeing with my way of thinking too, to try to use the gun as a deterrent. Like the arm citizen section in the American rifleman magazine says...
"The Mere presence of a firearm, without a shot being fired, prevents crime in many instances, as shown by news reports sent to The Armed citizen."

That was my favorite part of the magazine.

JB

 

[yooper1]

Not sure what you mean by "use it at that moment"?
If you mean don't take it out unless you are going to shoot someone,
I don't agree, true you could use that approach in life, but for me before I pull the trigger I'm going to give them a choice to stop the aggression, if possible.

Even the LEO,s do that still (sometimes )

When you say use it at that moment, you may be agreeing with my way of thinking too, to try to use the gun as a deterrent. Like the arm citizen section in the American rifleman magazine says...
"The Mere presence of a firearm, without a shot being fired, prevents crime in many instances, as shown by news reports sent to The Armed citizen."

That was my favorite part of the magazine.

JB

yes, that is "using it at that moment" and only you or the gun owner will know whether to escalate or not from there. It would have been used to stop the threat. Hopefully never having to be fired.

 

[bstrom]

I'm sorry you found a murder victim on your property. That seems like something that can really shock a person and make them realize how fragile life actually is. She was probably killed a very long way from your place and knew her murderer.

I've lived in the city and rural areas. In the city I lived on the edge of a pretty bad area and used to walk home from the subway. I got harassed once, which included some physical contact and another time had a gun pulled on me by a kid. These two incidents occurred over a five year period. I talked my way out of both of them and I'm not a even a talker. I'm not saying I'm for or against carrying one I really don't know. If I had a gun I'm not sure what I would have done with it, I'm almost sure it would have made the situation worse. I guess I just stood my ground. Maybe I was just lucky.

Incredibly I still don't feel the need to carry one. We have some large coyotes where I live now so I sometimes carry a hunting knife when I work in the woods, it seems a bit silly though after my years in bad city areas. I think if someone wants to carry protection they should be able to however they should be trained, do some practice with it and even then there is no guaranty they will do the right in every situation. It's complicated, I just wish people would acknowledge that fact.