How in the world did I break this (ck20hst)? And some questions.

[rimshot]

Rimshot and Murphy 1224, You both miss the point completely. I gave Malk315 a heads up about TBN's Terms of Use agreement, which each one of us agreed to when we signed up with TBN. What I posted was a quote of Malk315's post, therefore I included the link, which had already been posted.:confused2:
No one claimed to be a lawyer. Myths and facts can be discussed without lawyers present, and because something is on the internet doesn't make it false by default, either.
Assuming Kioti doesn't care about copying their owned literature is absurd. If they didn't care it would be FREE and they wouldn't charge $70 or more for a service manual.
Don't let the facts get in the way of your arguments.

============
I understand your point and it's technically accurate.

So here is Kioti and four years ago they sell the original poster a tractor and it costs the owner $20,000. Thats a pretty good sale and a chance he will be back. A few days off warranty at four years it breaks in a way perhaps it should not have. So a guy beats Kioti out of $70 for a manual and fixes his tractor and everybody is happy thanks to the four pages hijacked from a manual you say cost $70.00 Does it make sense for Kioti to make an issue out of the fact that he copied four pages to help this customer get his tractor back.

I think the fact that they stepped up to the plate and supplied parts is very good customer relations. Kioti is not going to start a range war with it's customer base over four or five pages copied out of a manual.

Yes, you have read the fine print correctly...........In the real world this gets forgotten.

rimshot

 

[mitchelli]

Can't believe I just spent 15 minutes reading this thread...I have found manuals on line for free for anything I have ever looked for. You just need to sometimes Google 50 pages. Everything is on the net from appliances, lawnmowers, engines, every type of electronic gear. And half of those were right from the OEM's website. My Kioti CK30 only has 100 hours on it and I am still trying to get proficient with the BH. The only Manufacturer I have a problem with is JD...I have a commercial mower from them and they don't even sell a manual for it...and the others I looked at on their website are an arm and a leg to buy...for this reason alone I would never go green.

Oh, and Juanillo, good luck with your project!

 

[hydro2]

The real crime is the tractor lasted for 4 years and had a major component fail. And its not brand specific. It seems all brands do and the sad part is that we make excuses and somehow try to justify the poor engineering and a cheaply built product. I have a tractor that is 64 years old with no major component failure. I am sure my Mahindra won't be around in 64 years.

Todays equipment is cheaply made and is costly to boot and we have come to except this as the norm.

 

[Mike476]

You need to familiarize yourself with the Terms of Use policy of TBN, Go to Home, Terms of Use, section 9, Copyright infringement. You cannot copy pages from a service manual and post it here. You can be tossed off the site permanently for doing things like that, and as a software guy you should know better. Because you buy a service manual does not give you or me or anyone else the right to copy and post pages from it. You agreed as did we all on TBN to the terms when we signed up for access to the site.

With some tact and consideration your post might have been seen as simply a kind reminder of TBNs policies on posting such material. Instead you chose to lecture, become argumentative and attempt to insult the mans intelligence. Had it been simply a "heads up" your message would probably have been appreciated, most of us get caught up trying to help each other out on occassion without giving due consideration to far-reaching effects. As for me, guilty as charged as I would have done the same given the chance.

 

[ScottyChip]

Thanks Mike476, you hit the nail on the head. The reason I find this site so useful is the great resource of people who are always willing to help. In my case I do not have this wealth of knowledge in my backyard, but I know if I come to TBN and ask a question I will get help.
Good on everyone for the trying to help in this case and I hope you get your tactor fixed. Kudos to Kioti as well.
My last word, for the cost of the manual I cannot belive the manufacturers are making any money, if they were it would be promoted and pushed by the sales guy as a addon during your purchase.

 

[Coyote machine]

What is the part # for the ign switch cover???

Sorry no clue- dealer installed at time of purchase, should be a part of dealer prep prior to sale, IMHO. I asked for it on both of my Kioti tractors- I'd seen it on another tractor on my dealer's lot, and asked why I didn't have one. They then installed it. Check with your dealer....

 

[Coyote machine]

With some tact and consideration your post might have been seen as simply a kind reminder of TBNs policies on posting such material. Instead you chose to lecture, become argumentative and attempt to insult the mans intelligence. Had it been simply a "heads up" your message would probably have been appreciated, most of us get caught up trying to help each other out on occassion without giving due consideration to far-reaching effects. As for me, guilty as charged as I would have done the same given the chance.

You quoted my post: it wasn't a lecture- merely a statement of what the OP should be familiar with regarding the polices we are all obligated to follow. I didn't become argumentative- posters chose to attack me and tell me that I was wrong when they had/have no clue as to copyrighted material. I made attempts to reason with some who think facts are irrelevant, evidently to slim avail.
BTW, this horse is DEAD. Let it be.

 

[Coyote machine]

Thanks Mike476, you hit the nail on the head. The reason I find this site so useful is the great resource of people who are always willing to help. In my case I do not have this wealth of knowledge in my backyard, but I know if I come to TBN and ask a question I will get help.
Good on everyone for the trying to help in this case and I hope you get your tactor fixed. Kudos to Kioti as well.
My last word, for the cost of the manual I cannot belive the manufacturers are making any money, if they were it would be promoted and pushed by the sales guy as a addon during your purchase.

You too are missing the point: its NOT about whether Kioti makes any money selling manuals- the point is about TBN members don't have the right to post copywrited material period.
And the add on theory- also flawed- did your dealer try to sell you a backhoe, boxblade, pallet forks, etc.? I doubt it, and one can't claim they don't make money selling attachments, can they?

 

[Mike476]

CM, if you've sonething constructive to say I'd love to read it. Some people share their wisdom to benefit others, some do it to benefit themselves. To correct you, this "issue" was never an issue in anyone elses mind but yours, how you reacted, and continue to react, was the issue. It too is now no longer an issue as you don't seem to value anyone elses opinion or advice, which is unfortunate as I'm sure you've a lot to offer those of us less experienced.

 

[Coyote machine]

============
I understand your point and it's technically accurate.

So here is Kioti and four years ago they sell the original poster a tractor and it costs the owner $20,000. Thats a pretty good sale and a chance he will be back. A few days off warranty at four years it breaks in a way perhaps it should not have. So a guy beats Kioti out of $70 for a manual and fixes his tractor and everybody is happy thanks to the four pages hijacked from a manual you say cost $70.00 Does it make sense for Kioti to make an issue out of the fact that he copied four pages to help this customer get his tractor back.

I think the fact that they stepped up to the plate and supplied parts is very good customer relations. Kioti is not going to start a range war with it's customer base over four or five pages copied out of a manual.

Yes, you have read the fine print correctly...........In the real world this gets forgotten.

rimshot

Let me attempt to make clear what this whole issue is about for anyone reading this thread. Its NOT about Kioti or their possibly making an issue about their manual's copywrited materials. Its IS about the TBN policy, and what we have all agreed to when signing up on TBN. It has nothing to do with real world vs. ? 'fake world' or whatever you're referring to:confused2:
I don't 'say' the manual costs $70, it is a fact based on my having PAID $70 for the DK-40 service manual in the real world, where people who want to do things the way they're supposed to do them- actually paying for a service manual through the dealer network, as a way to support the dealer network and the manufacturer of the tractor, rather then using rationalization as a way to justify, " beat(ing) Kioti out of $70...".
TBN isn't Napster or some other bogus site on the net. TBN prides itself on certain values and some of those are based on family values, including not allowing swearing, etc. because children as well as adults frequent these forums. I didn't make up TBN's policies, and I don't enforce them; I do however point out to some posters that they have or may have crossed the lines of what is allowed here on TBN. As well I do my best to abide by the TBN policies as that is what I agreed to do when I signed up here.
Thanks to all for your time and understanding. Now lets move back to tractor discussion.