I'm considering having a solar panel electrical system installed.

[dynasim]

It sometimes humors me, and sometimes makes me mad when people brag about how much they care for the "environment" when they install and use "green" devices that took more energy to make and install than they will ever produce.

It is more maddenning when they then brag about how smart they are by extracting the money to buy the anti-environmental devices from me.

I really don't like it.

I've done the research(not the sort research consisting of reading propaganda from socialist, but the sort of research where you investigate the production and installation processes in some detail), and am quite sure of the "environmental impact" of these devices. It is not pretty, and somewhat worse than ethanol production.

I am to busy creating value for the government(I won't be finished paying my tribute till mid year) to joust with the protagonist of these false ideals, but I would encourage others to keep the following statement in mind:

There is no free lunch, unless you are the extortionist in a corrupt system.

If you need to live off grid(there aren't power lines near), solar cells are good devices to have, and are likely environmentally neutral. Other are just participating in a mass movement driven by false ideals.

If the protagonists were patriots, and really believed that this was a good thing, they would pay for the devices themselves, instead of having me do it.

Chris

 

[RobertN]

We put 5KW in panels, 6KW inverter to allow a little future expansion, and solar hot water. We did it partly to take our bill to $0.00, partly because we like the idea, and partly because our rates keep going up and up and up. And, we plan to be here for a while.

We are grid tie, but have back up generator. For the most part, the biggest thing we have changed is being a little more frugal about AC in the summer.

A couple things disappoint me though. All the panels are made overseas. Come on, Intel Texas Instruments, AMD, all have closed fabs; it would be a refit, but companies here in the States should build some of this stuff... And, to get incentives, you are grid tied; the inverters are different from battery systems, so you really cant change you mind without a new inverter...

 

[schweizer]

I'm a little late to this thread, but we live off-grid. I come at it from a little different perspective -- I'm definitely not a socialist or "greenie" (no offense to anyone). Just always thought it would be cool to do my own thing, not dependent on a big power co.

To bring utility power up to our homesite was maybe around 1500 feet, but the power co wanted $40,000 to install, and then a $200/month service charge because we would be the last on the line (BLM land beyond us). Over 20 years, that's $48k in service charges + $40k install + usage costs.

Our 3.4 KW of solar panels, 2 Outback inverters, L16 battery bank (700 amp-hour @ 48 volts), etc. cost about $40,000 without incentives. Out-of-pocket cost was about $20,000 in the end (I'm still claiming the 50% tax credits over 3 years). It was an no-brainer choice for us because it was the land we wanted and it was where we wanted to build the house. Costs have come down quite a bit in the past few years since our installation.

If you are thinking about solar panels to offset any of your usage, I'd consider becoming the most energy efficient you can be first. That's where the most bang for the buck is. You're pouring money down the drain (or quite rich) if you have a giant monthly bill and want to fix that w/ a solar array. Our new off-grid house is almost 4x more efficient than the house in town, electricity-wise. We use about 10+ kwh/day, and that's on the high side for an off-grid home. The clothes dryer, stove/oven, and on-demand water heater are propane. Heating is by a custom built masonry stove (similar principle to the already mentioned Tulikivi).

If you're interested in our off-grid saga and more data:
Off-grid

Marcus

 

[wirenut]

Ready for a laugh? I went to Backwoods Solar Website. They have a little system calculator. So I plugged in my numbers for a grid tie system, here's the results;
System size: 11.29 kW
System cost: $79,420.00
Avg. monthly savings $150.00 or 50% of monthly bill
Breakeven time: 20.44 years

I think I'll put in my order tomorrow.
Before I get "branded" a nay-sayer, I posted this for grins only. I too am looking for any help I can get with high electrical cost. It does seem that all the good "toys" need power these days. Now even hammers have need batteries, and anything worth having has to have LEDs of some sort!!:laughing:

 

[ultrarunner]

Mom is always asking about solar and wondering if she should call one of the companies she sees advertised...

Her typical usage is between 10 and 15 Kw per day at more than 30+ cents a Kw

No idea what something like this would even cost out at... she's 78 and has lived in her home since 1969...

Oakland CA does have sun and she is on a ridge top... she also has seasonal fog that they don't just a few miles inland...

 

[LD1]

We put 5KW in panels, 6KW inverter to allow a little future expansion, and solar hot water. We did it partly to take our bill to $0.00, partly because we like the idea, and partly because our rates keep going up and up and up. And, we plan to be here for a while.

With your 5kw system, do you know how many kwh it is producing per month? Rob-d showed us his chart with a 6.4kw system and it looks like this month he will make ~700kwh. Any info in your set-up? And how much it is saving you per/month. And how much it cost you to install??

Mom is always asking about solar and wondering if she should call one of the companies she sees advertised...

Her typical usage is between 10 and 15 Kw per day at more than 30+ cents a Kw

No idea what something like this would even cost out at... she's 78 and has lived in her home since 1969...

Oakland CA does have sun and she is on a ridge top... she also has seasonal fog that they don't just a few miles inland...

If I had a situation like that, I probabally really consider solar. Low usage(300-450kwh/month) and VERY high rates. Allmost 3x's what I pay. Payback time on a system like that would probabally be under 5 years:thumbsup: The only problem is her age and wether SHE will benefit

 

[NorTracNY]

LD1,
I'm confused. According to DSIRE website you should have netmetering just like me. I'd suggest you contact a company that installs in your area. Also ask for a reference to talk with someone who actually has a system.
Ohio Ohio - Net Metering

 

[NorTracNY]

Mom is always asking about solar and wondering if she should call one of the companies she sees advertised...

Her typical usage is between 10 and 15 Kw per day at more than 30+ cents a Kw

No idea what something like this would even cost out at... she's 78 and has lived in her home since 1969...

Oakland CA does have sun and she is on a ridge top... she also has seasonal fog that they don't just a few miles inland...

I'd suggest looking at it. From the little I've researched before going ahead with it, CA is VERY solar positive. The rate you pay for electricity varies with the time of day. One person was saying that he makes money on his solar system after he's produced 60% of his energy for the month. This is because the solar system makes most of the energy when the rates are the highest.

 

[Rob-D]

It is more maddenning when they then brag about how smart they are by extracting the money to buy the anti-environmental devices from me.

I really don't like it.

I've done the research(not the sort research consisting of reading propaganda from socialist, but the sort of research where you investigate the production and installation processes in some detail), and am quite sure of the "environmental impact" of these devices. It is not pretty, and somewhat worse than ethanol production.

I am to busy creating value for the government(I won't be finished paying my tribute till mid year) to joust with the protagonist of these false ideals, but I would encourage others to keep the following statement in mind:

There is no free lunch, unless you are the extortionist in a corrupt system.

If you need to live off grid(there aren't power lines near), solar cells are good devices to have, and are likely environmentally neutral. Other are just participating in a mass movement driven by false ideals.

If the protagonists were patriots, and really believed that this was a good thing, they would pay for the devices themselves, instead of having me do it.

Chris

"It sometimes humors me, and sometimes makes me mad when people brag about how much they care for the "environment" when they install and use "green" devices that took more energy to make and install than they will ever produce."

Really?
This is from a trade magazine I get. The source is not Socialists but International Rectifier. Today there is a tremendous amount of research being done by chip manufacturers like IR because the future is renewables. And exactly what is your background and how many PV installs have you been involved with? Because I've been doing it and I do spend my own money but perhaps you'd rather buy oil from people who want to terrorize us, perhaps you would rather subsidize wars that protect the oil interests of global corporations?

The good news on solar power

Myth #1: Solar power cannot contribute significantly to the nation's electrical needs. Solar panels can help meet electricity demand on any scale, from a single home to a large city. For example, the solar energy that shines down on a 100-by-100-mile area of Nevada could supply the U.S. with all of its electricity. If these solar panels were distributed to the 50 states, each state would need to devote an area of about 17 by 17 miles to solar panels. The U.S. could also get enough land by using rooftops and vacant land. In fact, putting solar panels on the estimated 5 million acres of abandoned industrial sites in U.S. cites could supply 90% of America's current electricity needs.


Myth #2: Manufacturing solar panels creates pollution and uses more energy than the panels can generate over their lifetimes. Most solar panels pay back the energy used to make them in about one year. And with the panels generally lasting 30 years, they producing free and clean electricity for 29 of those years.

Solar-panel manufacturing is regulated by safety and pollution control standards, and it does create unwanted byproducts. But for each kilowatt generated by solar power rather than fossil fuels, the Earth avoids 9 kg of sulfuric oxide, 16 kg of nitrous oxide, and between 600 and 2,300 kg of carbon dioxide each year.


Myth #3: Solar power is unreliable and generates substandard electricity. Solar panels are reliable because they have no moving parts and have been tested by public and private organizations. Many solar panels have been tested and listed by Underwriters Laboratories, just like electrical appliances. Warranties of 25 years are standard on most solar panels.

Solar panels connected to the utility grid generate the same power as that from power lines. Panels today are configured to meet the requirements of the National Electrical Code and the local utility and building codes. Once panels are installed according to these requirements, the owner receives electricity of the same quality as any other utility customer.


Renewables aren't "free lunch", no one said they were but you. They are science and the future.

What really bugs me is people who want to reduce the environment that we, and every future generation fter us, depend on for our existence to a political issue.

So what exactly is your area of expertise? I'll tell you what mine is, I'm an electronic engineer with several patents now doing research with micropower devices and embedded microcontrollers, I have circuits being used around the world to improve the efficiency of wind generators. So let's have a debate about the "science" of alternate energy since you are making statements about it.
Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Ready for a laugh? I went to Backwoods Solar Website. They have a little system calculator. So I plugged in my numbers for a grid tie system, here's the results;
System size: 11.29 kW
System cost: $79,420.00
Avg. monthly savings $150.00 or 50% of monthly bill
Breakeven time: 20.44 years

I think I'll put in my order tomorrow.
Before I get "branded" a nay-sayer, I posted this for grins only. I too am looking for any help I can get with high electrical cost. It does seem that all the good "toys" need power these days. Now even hammers have need batteries, and anything worth having has to have LEDs of some sort!!:laughing:

What are your energy uses? Monthly KWH usage

At $3.00 a watt, actually it's less, the cost is $33,870. Educating yourself and doing your own installation saves you 35 to 50k in installation fees.

Rob