I'm considering having a solar panel electrical system installed.

[LD1]

Thats where I am. Thers no grid connection option here. When there is, and prices come down a bit, I want to put in 10,000+ square feet of panels. Output on hi sun should be about 100KW at todays cell efficiency. That should run a net income year round and power my farm free. I dont want to get into batteries. Grid tie is capable of handling everything except the the actual solar generation.
larry

Glad I'm not the only one.

I am not interested in the batteties for several reasons

1. Expensive
2. Maintenance
3. I have VERY reliable power
4. Batteries really arent that green when you consider what goes into making them.
5. Grid tie is just SOOO much simpler.

And you are right, IF one day my power company ever does net metering, and costs come down to ~5-7 year paybacks, you bet I'd install as many panels as I could afford and make money on the deal. That day just isnt today.

 

[techman]

I put my system in fall of last year. 9200 watts installed. I have been averaging about 1 MWH/month so far. Less in DEC and Jan, but now on the increase. The "book" value from an installer was $ 46K. I did most of the work myself, and had the install firm (a friend) do the "official" stuff for the state and utility. This enabled me to have an out of pocket cost of $30K. Federal and state rebates brought this down to $ 10K. We have net metering so my payback is about 6-7 years, but you are able to sell renewable energy credits on an open market (auction). See www.srectrade.com This should lower my payback to about 3 years. If utilities go up in price, then better for me. Also panel prices have dropped about 30% since I bought mine. This would have saved me about $7K, but the $7K state rebate is no longer available, so It would be a wash. The panels are warranted for 25 years and the inverter for 20 years. When these warranties are up I should be dead.

paul

 

[RobertN]

It is directed at the system; the Gov, the companies...

It must simply be cheaper to make things outside the US right now. Your disappointment should prob be directed at our govt, not companies that decide for themselves how to best profit.

 

[Rob-D]

Hey rob: you said you were considering wind turbines?

How much are those/watt. I have briefly looked that them and I guess one of my biggest fears (besides COP) is that there are SOOOO many comanies and websites selling this stuff, and I know a LOT of it is just chinese junk, and I dont want to get a box full of crap for a lot of $$$$.

Anyways, I came across this Residential Wind Turbine Grid Tie Kit and it has me intrugued. 500W for $900:thumbsup: Thats less than $2/watt and thats BEFORE rebates. That may cut the COP down enough to where I would be interested. Lets say it truly is 0.5kwh and lets say it only runs 8 hours a day....that would generate 120kwh/month...or at my rate, $13/month. Thats a ~70 month payback not counting the rebates. If I take 30% off the $900, that brings the cost to $630 and payback in 48 months:thumbsup:

But for all I know they could just be junk??

Edit: they also list a 1kw one for UNDER $1000 Edit again, I just seen that was turbine only. over 2k for kit

This is not your fault but it's what has done so much damage to renewables. These guys should be tared and feathered and dragged down a dirt country road backward.

Before you put in a wind turbine you have to monitor your site for a period to make sure you have enough wind. You can go to Southwest Windpower's site, they have image maps of everyone's area down to front lawns which will give you a very good idea and start.

Wind turbine output is an aspect of the swept area of the blades, those 4-1/2 foot blades aren't going to give you much. the catch is that they are rated at 500watts at 10 meters/sec or about 25 mph. No one I know has constant 25 mile an hour wind! And you have to get that turbine high up to get any real benefit, that means another 2 to 4K for towers for that small wind mill, the bigger windmills get the more the tower cost.
Wind has some benefits ,like the fact that it balances PV but there are some real downsides. It has to come down off that tower every year or two for checking and maintenance and after about 5 years the blades have to be changed. You also need some real estate because the towers take up room and some, not all, can be noisy. That little turbine is likely on the noisy list because it spins so fast.

I do see some new designs coming out and it's OK for me because I'm building mine from scratch and I have good wind (12 to 14 mph at times) in my front pasture but basically I think unless you know wind it should be a second or third option. PV interite goes in and runs and runs and runs for years with no maintenance. For newbies it's what I advise if you don't have a good stream.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Thats where I am. Thers no grid connection option here. When there is, and prices come down a bit, I want to put in 10,000+ square feet of panels. Output on hi sun should be about 100KW at todays cell efficiency. That should run a net income year round and power my farm free. I dont want to get into batteries. Grid tie is capable of handling everything except the the actual solar generation.
larry

I'm not going to completely disagree with you Larry but this is what got Germany in trouble. If you're selling power back to the grid this is certainly a good thing .... as long as the grid holds up. When the grid is down, you're down. Germany found out the hard way that storage is a part of the equation.

My batteries are not a problem, they sit here and when they have to come into play they do. I check the levels and they sometimes need water every 4 to 6 months if they get used. I'm still net zero because my intertie zeros out my bill so it's like living off the grid without the hassle of batteries. So basically the batteries are like a gen set only they don't need gas. That's nice because when the power dips or drops my well pump, my oil burner motor, water circulators, fridge and freezer all keep going.

Rob

 

[Recoveryhill]

Great post Dan. I've been to a few homes that have solar systems to supply power, and I know a few people who wanted to go this route, but the numbers just don't work.

Staying on the grid and putting the money into energy efficiency, insulation and conservation make a lot more sense.

Eddie

Eddie,

I'm your unfortunate future. I pay.46 per kilowatt hour for municipal power. I estimate the current average in the states is around .10. Multiply your current bill by five and there you go. Just as I hope mine doesn't go to .70/.80, I hope your's doesn't go to .40 plus, but I would't count on that.

My attention is geared toward wind and or solar and will have to make the jump here, sooner or later. The payback at .10 is not there. The payback at half a buck per kilowatt hour is real.

Good luck!

 

[Rob-D]

I put my system in fall of last year. 9200 watts installed. I have been averaging about 1 MWH/month so far. Less in DEC and Jan, but now on the increase. The "book" value from an installer was $ 46K. I did most of the work myself, and had the install firm (a friend) do the "official" stuff for the state and utility. This enabled me to have an out of pocket cost of $30K. Federal and state rebates brought this down to $ 10K. We have net metering so my payback is about 6-7 years, but you are able to sell renewable energy credits on an open market (auction). See SRECTrade - Solar Renewable Energy Credit SREC Auction This should lower my payback to about 3 years. If utilities go up in price, then better for me. Also panel prices have dropped about 30% since I bought mine. This would have saved me about $7K, but the $7K state rebate is no longer available, so It would be a wash. The panels are warranted for 25 years and the inverter for 20 years. When these warranties are up I should be dead.

paul

That sounds about right Paul. This month I'll probably do 700 KWH but this is March in the North East, by June I should be a lot higher, I expect yours will be too.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Eddie,

I'm your unfortunate future. I pay.46 per kilowatt hour for municipal power. I estimate the current average in the states is around .10. Multiply your current bill by five and there you go. Just as I hope mine doesn't go to .70/.80, I hope your's doesn't go to .40 plus, but I would't count on that.

My attention is geared toward wind and or solar and will have to make the jump here, sooner or later. The payback at .10 is not there. The payback at half a buck per kilowatt hour is real.

Good luck!

I think you're the beginning of the unfortunate future for all of us.

Rob

 

[wirenut]

What are your energy uses? Monthly KWH usage

At $3.00 a watt, actually it's less, the cost is $33,870. Educating yourself and doing your own installation saves you 35 to 50k in installation fees.

Rob

Max so far is about 3000kwh/month - lowest about 2000kw/h, so avg 2500 kwh/ month. cost per kwh about $0.10

 

[moeh1]

How much effect does orientation have on the panels? I assume the 10-13 W/sq ft average is affected by how the light hits it?