New 5075M is at the dealer's!

[Island Farmer]

I've been out of the loop for a few days... it's fertilizer time up here. Although, the ground is still way too saturated for any tractor work!

Island Farmer's grill looks like a 6000 series, to me. Alot more HD than on my 75M. Would be an awesome feature with some heavy, extruded wire mesh welded to the framework. :thumbsup:

Excepting the height of the tractor with the 34's; they don't appear to be too wide or bulbous, bulky...

Gotta have alot of ballast! Especially.... imperative with a taller profile!

Last week, the local haygrower's had 88 tons of fertilizer shipped in - in 2,000lb bulk bags. One of the farmer's had a 5425 with a 542NSL loader and 400lbs of rear wheel wts (no fluid and no 3pt. weight/attachment) available to unload the semi and load the smaller trailers for people's farm delivery.

Standard bias ply with 18.4x30 rears. Long story short - bag on ground; fertilizer everywhere - and tractor very close to tipping over! Very, very scary to see a tractor begin to "buck and roll" off the bounce and flex of the tires; uncontrollably... until the bag slipped off the forks!

If the bag had not fallen off the forks - I'm convinced that the tractor would have rolled onto the right front wheel and pinned the loader to the ground off the right side of the boom! :shocked:

AKfish

AKfish,

Thanks for you thoughts. I have only been in the cab briefly since the loader and grill guard were installed. The grill guard is definitely heavy duty, no complaint there, I was more wondering about the size and site-lines. I guess there is a balance between unobstructed view and protection.

I am leaning more and more toward going back to the 18.4R30 rears, which actually are wider and have a slightly larger flat plate than the 18.4R34. My quandary is that the main reason that I decided to move up to the 14.9R24 / 18.4R34 combo was to grow my flat plate and load carrying capacity of the front tires. I have calculated the overrun of the original 12.4R24 which for the 18.4R30 is just slightly greater than zero. In the case of the 14.9R24 / 18.4R34 the overrun is about 2.5. and if I went to the 13.6R24 on the front and the 18.4R30 on the rear the overrun would be almost JD's max recommended 5%. Of course over time the fronts will wear and the overrun will decrease somewhat.

Just for reference AKfish, I calculated the overrun of your 11.2/24 Goodyear Dura Torgue tires, it is very similar to my original combo at just over zero. The good part of not much overrun should be less front tire wear, the down side would be that after some wear you might not actually have any overrun or actually some underrun. This is definitely not an area of expertise for me, so if you or anyone else wants to educate me, I am all for it.

Thanks everyone,

Island Farmer

 

[AKfish]

AKfish,

Thanks for you thoughts. I have only been in the cab briefly since the loader and grill guard were installed. The grill guard is definitely heavy duty, no complaint there, I was more wondering about the size and site-lines. I guess there is a balance between unobstructed view and protection.

I am leaning more and more toward going back to the 18.4R30 rears, which actually are wider and have a slightly larger flat plate than the 18.4R34. My quandary is that the main reason that I decided to move up to the 14.9R24 / 18.4R34 combo was to grow my flat plate and load carrying capacity of the front tires. I have calculated the overrun of the original 12.4R24 which for the 18.4R30 is just slightly greater than zero. In the case of the 14.9R24 / 18.4R34 the overrun is about 2.5. and if I went to the 13.6R24 on the front and the 18.4R30 on the rear the overrun would be almost JD's max recommended 5%. Of course over time the fronts will wear and the overrun will decrease somewhat.

Just for reference AKfish, I calculated the overrun of your 11.2/24 Goodyear Dura Torgue tires, it is very similar to my original combo at just over zero. The good part of not much overrun should be less front tire wear, the down side would be that after some wear you might not actually have any overrun or actually some underrun. This is definitely not an area of expertise for me, so if you or anyone else wants to educate me, I am all for it.

Thanks everyone,

Island Farmer

I don't have a great deal of "knowledge" regarding overrun - beyond the difficulty shifting in and out of 4x4 - when you approach the upper 5% boundary.

I switched back and forth with different tire/wheel combos on an older, 4x4 tractor that I used to own. The greater the overrun - the more "crabbing and grabbing" occured with the front wheels when using 4x4 and the harder it was to shift in/out. Especially - out!

Everything is a compromise... floatation versus traction; stability versus ground clearance, etc.

Shoot for something in the middle --- call it good! :thumbsup:

AKfish

 

[pclausen]

Been keeping up with this thread, just don't have anything to add yet as I'm *still* waiting on my tractor. I will say that my 6405 loaner had 12.4R24s on the front and 18.4R34 rears, and it was a very tall ride. Of course a lot of that was the frame I think.

I hope I'll be happy with my 13.6R24 / 420/85R34 combo. I'll be sure to post my impressions once I get it. I think the width of the footprint with the 420s will be only an inch or so less compared to a 18.4R34.

 

[Island Farmer]

Been keeping up with this thread, just don't have anything to add yet as I'm *still* waiting on my tractor. I will say that my 6405 loaner had 12.4R24s on the front and 18.4R34 rears, and it was a very tall ride. Of course a lot of that was the frame I think.

I hope I'll be happy with my 13.6R24 / 420/85R34 combo. I'll be sure to post my impressions once I get it. I think the width of the footprint with the 420s will be only an inch or so less compared to a 18.4R34.

pclausen,

I think you have nothing to worry about, your 13.6R24 / 420/85R34 combo will raise your 5085M about .75 of an inch from what it would have been with the 12.4R24 / 18.4R30 combo. They are about 1.5 inches taller, so .75 additional tractor height. For reference the 14.9R24 / 18.4R34 combo raises our machines by a full two inches, which I think actually does make a difference, although maybe it wouldn't matter if we weren't dealing with any slopes. I have done a lot of study on this by this point. Like I said earlier, if I had ordered my tractor from the factory instead of my dealer finding it at another dealership for me, I would have ordered your wheel tire combo.

At this point that might be a more complicated option for me. I am now thinking I will either just put back the original 12.4R24 / 18.4R30 combo, or I will put those JD wheels back on and put Michelin Multibib 420/65R24 on the front and Michelin Agrabib 18.4R30s on the rear. If I do that I would actually have a larger flat plate front and rear than your combination, but without the additional tractor height, or the wheel weight problom associated with the non JD wheels. It looks like your combination will give about a 2.25 overrun, for me with the Multibib / Agrabib combo it would be more like .25 overrun just like the original 12.4R24 / 18.4R30 combo, and also just like AKfish's 11.2/24 -16.9/30 combo.

It really is something how many things we have to think about with these tractor purchases. Obviously, if we were getting less expensive, simpler machines we might not have the options available and the expense would be less justified.

I look forward to seeing your machine put together.

By the way, did you get a grill guard like the one I got, or is yours different?

Island Farmer

 

[Island Farmer]

I don't have a great deal of "knowledge" regarding overrun - beyond the difficulty shifting in and out of 4x4 - when you approach the upper 5% boundary.

I switched back and forth with different tire/wheel combos on an older, 4x4 tractor that I used to own. The greater the overrun - the more "crabbing and grabbing" occured with the front wheels when using 4x4 and the harder it was to shift in/out. Especially - out!

Everything is a compromise... floatation versus traction; stability versus ground clearance, etc.

Shoot for something in the middle --- call it good! :thumbsup:

AKfish

AKfish,

Thank you for your input. That is very interesting regarding the "crabbing and grabbing" when you have too much overrun. I wonder what happens in your case, or possibly mine if I go the way I'm leaning, we would both have about .25% overrun with new tires. The thing is that eventually those fronts will wear and we will have less overrun. I would assume eventually maybe some underrun. I guess the bright side is that with less overrun to start with, there may be less rapid tire wear. When we go below 0% overrun though, it would seem that we would have much less pulling/traction.

I also appreciate your sentiment of do your best and then keep moving.

Island Farmer

 

[pclausen]

By the way, did you get a grill guard like the one I got, or is yours different?

I got the standard one that is part of the H260 loader package. Not sure if it will look like yours or not. Will be interesting to find out!

 

[Zebrafive]

I was thinking your grill guard looks like what came on the 6D series, BW15800.
Hard to tell about Caledon's from the side view, it looks like it has wrap around side "wings" I wonder if they would be in the way for servicing.

My 6415 came with BW14740, I swapped to BW155354. The brush guard for it is BW15537.

I'll have to raise the loader and get a better picture of mine.

 

[Zebrafive]

My 6415's owners manual states Ratio of front to rear tires is precisely determined to produce positive front wheel lead of between 1.5 and 4 percent.
"Otherwise the tires will become deformed or suffer undue wear."

MY thought/opinion is this lead is for steering control. The front tires will never be lagging and will be able to pull the front end in the direction the operator steers. When going straight they will have the 1.5-4% slippage since they are going slightly faster. This just my opinion. I would love to hear the technical reason(s) from an engineer!

I am thinking less than 1.5% and steering will be difficult. Over 4% and wear will be faster.

 

[AKfish]

AKfish,

Thank you for your input. That is very interesting regarding the "crabbing and grabbing" when you have too much overrun. I wonder what happens in your case, or possibly mine if I go the way I'm leaning, we would both have about .25% overrun with new tires. The thing is that eventually those fronts will wear and we will have less overrun. I would assume eventually maybe some underrun. I guess the bright side is that with less overrun to start with, there may be less rapid tire wear. When we go below 0% overrun though, it would seem that we would have much less pulling/traction.

I also appreciate your sentiment of do your best and then keep moving.

Island Farmer

Island Farmer,

I've got 155 hours on my tractor, now. Quite a few of those hours have been on snow, ice.

I've got those front wheel spacers, too.

What I've observed about the steering, handling and 4x4 response is that the rears seem to push the front end moreso than the fronts dragging the rear end about.

I did not ascribe that particular operational characteristic to "overrun" although there certainly could be something to that...

I considered it to be a functional aspect of the "very wide" front end track and the difficulty of turning the front end about with that configuration.

That said, having less overrun and the wide track would make steering less responsive; less agile.

AKfish

 

[Island Farmer]

Island Farmer,

I've got 155 hours on my tractor, now. Quite a few of those hours have been on snow, ice.

I've got those front wheel spacers, too.

What I've observed about the steering, handling and 4x4 response is that the rears seem to push the front end moreso than the fronts dragging the rear end about.

I did not ascribe that particular operational characteristic to "overrun" although there certainly could be something to that...

I considered it to be a functional aspect of the "very wide" front end track and the difficulty of turning the front end about with that configuration.

That said, having less overrun and the wide track would make steering less responsive; less agile.

AKfish

AKfish,

I am still struggling, trying to come to a decision about what to do with my tires.

In your case, I think that you said that you decided to get the standard non-radial tires so that they would be easy to replace in your rather remote location. I think that they are the Goodyear 11.2/24 Dura Torque TL in the front, and the Goodyear 16.9/30 Dura Torque TL in the rear. If this assumption is correct, I calculate that you would actually not have any overrun of your front tires at all, but instead have a slight underrun. Based on what I have assumed is your rear tire, we would have 175" rolling circumference times .741 (for zero overrun) which equals 129.67. Your front tire when new had a rolling circumference of 129", which would produce a slight underrun. I think that it is possible that this is the cause of your steering issues.

What I just cannot understand is why John Deere gives these recommendations, and then sells new tractors and installs tires on them that, in some cases, do not follow their own guidelines. For example, my tractor came from the factory with the 12.4R24 / 18.4R30 combo. If you calculate zero overrun you get 136.34", and the 12.4R24 is 136". Generally our front tires wear faster, so starting with almost no overrun doesn't seem desirable.

Let's consider pclausen's sexy new 2012 5085M freshly delivered to the dealer today. He ordered the 13.6R24 - 420/85R34 combo which produces an overrun of smack dab in the middle of JD's recommendations: 2.5%.

I would like to go with the 18.4R30 in the rear, because although it is shorter than pclausens's rear tires, it is wider and has a larger flat plate, but the only reasonable front tire choice would be the Multibib 440/65R24 which is 17.3" wide. So, do I choose the Michelin Multibib 440/65R24 front and the Agribib 18.4R30 rear, or do I choose the 13.6R24 - 420/85R34 combo that pclausen has and is a factory option on the 5085M, that is the question..................

I must say, I am a little punchy at the moment, been working way too many hours. So, sorry if I am no longer making sense. I have't seen any posts from Caledon Hills lately, but I wonder if he has many slopes to contend with? The 14.9R24 - 18.4R34 combo that he has, and that I got just feels too big and tall for working in tight places, or on even moderate slopes. Well, back to work for me. I wish that everyone has a good rest of the day, it is beautiful here on the island.

Island Farmer