No Spark to plugs...please read and help

[Ford851]

So sorry guys, I didn't think there were any posts to this thread. Don't know how I missed them. I'm way behind on this thread. I reversed the linear setting in my personal profile and messed up. Looks like your getting expert advice. I'll read the history and get back if I see where I can help.

Ford851

 

[ruffdog]

Now that it is light out, I got a chance to look at the neighbors tractor. The points needed dressing and he tried doing it with a pocket tool nail file. I used one of my Mac Tools points cleaning emery boards and we are good now. My question is: If you change your primary voltage, do you have to change you condenser? When I manually operated the points with the key on, they didn't seem to arc any worse than the rest of the stuff I work on.

 

[Soundguy]

average breaker condensor has a deilectric good for 120+vdc

that's why you don't see 6v/12v listings for breakers and condensors or caps..

soundguy

 

[larry2660]

Jerry if you have not figured it out already try this.
get another condenser even though you put a new one on.
I had a VW years ago tuned it up cranked one or two times and would not crank again
NO spark at plug end. After not listening to my daddy tell me what to do I spent about 3 hrs trying to get it running, finally put the OLD condenser back on it fired up.
hope you get it running

Larry

 

[Soundguy]

don't buy parts without testing... unless you got more money than sens... er time.

use a test lamp inline with the coil.. crank over.. if it blinks.. points are not shorted.( thus condensor is not shorted )
if it stays lit, points are shorted. ( closed up or condensor short.. or feed thru insulator shorted )

if it kinda blinks but no or weak spark.. check breakers for arcing and pitting. this could be a sign of OPEN condensor. you can test a condensro with an analog ohm meter set to 1x scale.

short pig tail to cond body.. put leads on tail and body.. ohms should got to 0, then swing to infinite.

 

[jenkinsph]

don't buy parts without testing... unless you got more money than sens... er time.

use a test lamp inline with the coil.. crank over.. if it blinks.. points are not shorted.( thus condensor is not shorted )
if it stays lit, points are shorted. ( closed up or condensor short.. or feed thru insulator shorted )

if it kinda blinks but no or weak spark.. check breakers for arcing and pitting. this could be a sign of OPEN condensor. you can test a condensro with an analog ohm meter set to 1x scale.

short pig tail to cond body.. put leads on tail and body.. ohms should got to 0, then swing to infinite.

I agree with Soundguy on this, good advice. A small vom and a test light are useful for many things around the home and workshop.

 

[nj82tj]

Part number is: IC14 from NAPA.

Still haven't been able to pinpoint the problem. I replaced the distributor cap wires with new ones. Still no luck. When I put the wires one by one on the COIL to test them, they spark. They won't from the dist. cap though... but I was able to get a very small spark from the wire when directly on the distributor cap when the motor was about done cranking over. I'm not sure exactly how to explain it, it was kind of strange. All testing for the points and condenser come back positive. I cleaned the all the grounds on the tractor to make sure they were good.

"use a test lamp inline with the coil.. crank over.. if it blinks.. points are not shorted.( thus condensor is not shorted )
if it stays lit, points are shorted. ( closed up or condensor short.. or feed thru insulator shorted )"
Thanks Soundguy, I did this and the light blinked strongly so I do believe the condenser and points are fine.

I will continue to update as/if I find the problem.

Side note: I tested the current from the coil thru the wire into the cap and out the "ball" terminal that the rotor touches, it gets the same 12.5ish volts right there that is at the battery. Also, the rotor is brand new.

 

[Dr Dave]

I would check voltage at coil + terminal when cranking, should be at least 12 V. If not you may have a resistor in line somewere, bad wire or a bad ignition switch? If not ditch that coil and use your 6V coil.

The 6V coil will work, if there is a resistor, NAPA IC R11 will work if not, and Install a Ford starter relay with 2 large/2 small terminals, NAPA MPE ST81SB. Hook the I terminal to coil +, S terminal to ignition switch. There will now be 2 wires at the coil +. The I terminal from the relay, provides full voltage at crank and the resistor provides 6to 7 V in run position.

 

[Ford851]

I too have had problems with the dust cap. As I recall there was and arrow stamped on the dust cap. Anyway, had to go with new distributor and old dust cap. Can you try it without the dust cap?

 

[Ford851]

If you are using your old dust cap make sure it is clean. Sometimes black soot type stuff clings to the inside and forms a path to ground. Forgot to mention that.

 

[Soundguy]

the ic14 coil is fine.

expensive but fine. IIRC the ic14 is a 50-60$ coil, .. that's why I always reccomend an IC14SB.. it's a 16$ coil. both the IC14 and IC14SB are native 12v coils.. have no resistor inside them and need no external resistor. the SB series is their value parts.. no nice logo on them.. otherwise pretty much same coil as a IC14.. just 30$ cheaper.

 

[nj82tj]

So I was working on it more today and found that when the starter nears the end of its cranking, it acts like it wants to start...I even get a little, very little spark from the dist cap to the plugs. I guess not enough to start though. Does this ring any bells for anyone? I'm still trying to get it solved, but at least now I feel like I'm possibly making some sort of progress. Thanks again for all the help so far. There is lots of knowledge floating around in this forum.

 

[Ford851]

Please make sure the dust cap is clean and not cracked. I say this because you are dealing with high voltage on the output of the coil. High voltage will take the path of least resistance. When the old distributor was spinning metal and dust combine and form a film on the inside of the cap. Just clean with some alcohol.

Also, it sounds like you could be clocked off by one tooth on the distributor shaft and maybe the spark has to jump inside the distributor. Sometime it makes it and sometimes not. How do you set up your timing?

 

[crlytlfrm]

If you didn't install a resistor you may have burned out your coil. I would think that be the issue if it worked before converting to 12 volts and then ran a few times after. Even 12 volt coils require the resistor, they start on 12 Volt but run on 6. No resistor would put 12 to the coil all the time.

 

[Ford851]

Why then does the coil say on the side, "Ne external resister required"? I may be wrong, but you should read the posts by soundguy and Dollar Bill and a host of others above explaining this is detail.

 

[crlytlfrm]

Cause I've been there and done that, sorry for trying to help. guess I'll keep where I been to myself.

 

[Ford851]

Your right. I apologize. My intent was not to start a fire.

 

[Dr Dave]

Sounds like you have a voltage drop when cranking, Battery good? starter draw excessive? Voltage drop on ground or +battery cable? or ignition switch/circuit to coil. If ok try the 4 terminal Ford type starter relay, hook I terminal to coil+, this will give full voltage when cranking.

 

[nj82tj]

Sounds like you have a voltage drop when cranking, Battery good? starter draw excessive? Voltage drop on ground or +battery cable? or ignition switch/circuit to coil. If ok try the 4 terminal Ford type starter relay, hook I terminal to coil+, this will give full voltage when cranking.

How much voltage should be at the coil when I'm cranking over? I tested that last night and was at about 8.5-9volts when cranking. I am also going to get a new distributor cap, dust cover and clip to try tonight.

 

[nj82tj]

If you didn't install a resistor you may have burned out your coil. I would think that be the issue if it worked before converting to 12 volts and then ran a few times after. Even 12 volt coils require the resistor, they start on 12 Volt but run on 6. No resistor would put 12 to the coil all the time.

My first attempt was with a 12volt coil that had no resistance...that thing got so hot it would have melted the skin off my hand. Needless to say, since I've changed to the one I put the picture up of, it doesn't really get hot at all. It might warm up a few degrees, but it stays much much cooler.