Small Pole Building Question

[LD1]

Yea. That was my issue. I wanted a 30 x 50 4-door. And with the lay of my land and to match the roofline of my house, it was the only way to do it without going smaller. (and I am glad I didnt) even if it is a PITA in the winter.

Got to be carefull with the 4x4 cause I can still pull in over a pretty good hump of snow, but only an 8' door:confused2: I ahve came close at times when I am too lazy to shovel it out.

 

[jerseydog]

We need to back up on this one. The poles do not have to be any longer on the gable ends. Has anyone ever seen a commercial built pole barn with long poles on the gable ends?

The sketch shown is very odd framing. In the first place, the roof does not have trusses. It appears to be a stick built rafter roof, but it doesn't have a ridge pole. I've seen roofs built like this but they are very unstable. The roof should be structurally sound without the walls or poles. If using trusses, it should have proper bracing under the rafter members, run at an angle to make the the roof rigid. If you stick build with rafters, and use a proper ridge pole, the sheathing or purlins will make the roof rigid, but I still like to run a few diagonal braces under the rafters.

Yes, these are trusses. They're engineered storage trusses. This was just a quick drawing that I produced to discuss the gable end poles. I'm not showing bracing here, but the truss design does call for stabilizers and cross bracing during erection. I will most likely do angled cross bracing as you mentioned in addition to the plywood sheething. I just wasn't sure if the gable end poles need to be full height as shown. It would make it a bit easier to erect with them at full height.

 

[LD1]

If those are storabe trusses, (which I though they were), the definatally leave the end pole full length.

On a typical truss, the bracing is basically diagonals going from bottom of one truss to the top of the other. (sometimes every-other on 2' spans). And since the bottom chord of the storage truss is actually the floor for the storage area, that would be un-desirable

 

[jimmysisson]

If the roof sheathing is 5/8" ply as noted, the gable ends need no verticals from the first story walls. If the storage floor is sheathed, as I assume it would be, that provides a stiff membrane in that plane.
Imagine the roof built right on the foundation, no walls at all. You wouldn't need end posts in that case. Also assume the wall structure as built will be stiff enough (those knee braces) so they are a rigid element. Fasten your trusses properly to a rigid base and you don't need end posts. Most trussed roofs don't have them, and they depend only on the ceiling drywall (plus code mandated bracing) for a membrane.
Jim

 

[LD1]

Yea, the 5/8 ply sheeting would be fine for the bracing, I keep thinking "pole barn" type construction. but I would still use longer poles. Why do "only" what is required? When you can do better for very little more $$$.

A full length post may cost another $20. There are only two of them. So an extra $40 on a what???? $5k job?? The plywood dont do any good till it is up either. So the the whole time you are working on and putting sheeting on the roof, there is little support. The end posts will give that lateral support from the get-go.

Wether its required or not, I would use the longer post. But thats just me.

 

[lwhiway]

As I am located to the extreme south very close to the Gulf of Mexico, we do not have to worry about snow loads for buildings, but we do have to take into consideration that what is built this year may get destroyed next year by Hurricane force winds. Much like the close call our farm is having right now.

The only advice I can offer with/about a pole shed building is about protection of the poles placed into the ground. I use an epoxy system bought from West Systems and put two coats of epoxy on the ends of the poles to be placed into the ground. Coating the bottoms up to at least 24" above the ground level.

I've been doing this now for the last 40 years and have "0" pole rot or termite damage to the poles themselves. BTW, before West Systems was found, off the shelf epoxy for fiberglass work was used with the same results.

Good luck with your build.
LW

 

[GPintheMitten]

I'm no engineer, but have built a few things. It is probably best to put the 2 posts full height on both gable walls, but probably not totally necessary. They are going to very long posts. Looks like they would be 18' out of the ground, so probably 22' long (can you buy 22'?, maybe 24'). So they will cost more than $20/each.

For lateral support while building, nail diagonal bracing from near the top of the end truss about 4' or 6' in to the bottom of an interior truss (as others have said). Repeat this type of bracing on interior trusses. Nail diagonal bracing along the plane of roof line to add support. If you nail them on the underside, they won't be in the way when you put the 5/8" sheating up. Also nail perpendicular bracing along the top to keep the spacing. You can remove the bracing inside the loft, later after you get the roof sheathing on and as you are placing the floor sheathing on.

I would do the above bracing, regardless of whether I had 2 full height posts on the gable end.

I have built a pole barn with trusses with a much lower pitch, with no storage in the attic with posts that did not go to the top of the gable. As I recall, they were about 2' taller than the other posts.

It's your call of course, spend an extra $100-$150 bucks and put 4 full height posts in the middle of the gable ends, or put one short one in the middle.

Here's a thought, put 1 tall post in the middle as high as you want, then cut it at the attic floor level at the end of the project. The waste would probably be useful for something later on.

 

[LD1]

I'm no engineer, but have built a few things. It is probably best to put the 2 posts full height on both gable walls, but probably not totally necessary. They are going to very long posts. Looks like they would be 18' out of the ground, so probably 22' long (can you buy 22'?, maybe 24'). So they will cost more than $20/each.



It's your call of course, spend an extra $100-$150 bucks and put 4 full height posts in the middle of the gable ends, or put one short one in the middle.

Here's a thought, put 1 tall post in the middle as high as you want, then cut it at the attic floor level at the end of the project. The waste would probably be useful for something later on.

Cost difference around me isnt that much. A 4x6x12 PT post is $18. A 4x6x20 PT post is only $13 more.

And I was only talking TWO posts. One in the middle on EACH end. I dont know what will be required length wise, But either way, you need a post in the middle. Full length or short is the question. Two posts that go an additional 8' up to the truss for only another $26. You bet I'd do it

 

[Ranger Rick]

Cost difference around me isnt that much. A 4x6x12 PT post is $18. A 4x6x20 PT post is only $13 more.

And I was only talking TWO posts. One in the middle on EACH end. I dont know what will be required length wise, But either way, you need a post in the middle. Full length or short is the question. Two posts that go an additional 8' up to the truss for only another $26. You bet I'd do it

In VA near me once the length of the treated post goes past 16' the price goes up astronomically. A 16' 4x6 is $20 but a 20' 4x6 is $57.00. A 16' treated 6x 6 is $30 and a 20' is $84 and a 24' is $119. This is one reason I am keeping the ceiling of my pole barn at 10 feet.
Rick

 

[GPintheMitten]

Cost difference around me isnt that much. A 4x6x12 PT post is $18. A 4x6x20 PT post is only $13 more.

And I was only talking TWO posts. One in the middle on EACH end. I dont know what will be required length wise, But either way, you need a post in the middle. Full length or short is the question. Two posts that go an additional 8' up to the truss for only another $26. You bet I'd do it

Fair enough. I may have overstated the cost. Maybe it would be somewhere in between, but it wouldn't brake the bank. I agree with you that it might be the better way to go.