Tractor Sizing Looking to buy a tractor for 40 acres of woods

[Woodsyways]

I am looking to become a tractor owner. My dad and I have almost 40 acres of heavily wooded land. Much of the property is steep especially in some of the draws/drainages. We are considering getting a used skid-steer as well. Much of the flatter land has been over taken by blackberry including the area we started clearing last year with weed eaters. Unfortunately I didn't get any photos when the blackberries were 4-6 feet tall.
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Were planing on putting a small orchard in this area and cleared out the trees. but there are still a lot of blackberry roots in the ground. I was thinking that a cultivator behind a tractor might be a good way of weeding them out. The soils are loamy and light but there is a fair bit of rock.
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Future anticipated uses for the tractor would be seeding area with grass. Brush hoging blackberries after getting a hand on them with a skid-steer. Preparing ground for a garden. If we get a skid-steer I would probably not get an FEL. My main question is what size of a tractor should I get? I have been looking at the Kubota B series but don't know if this would be big enough. Any help/advice is greatly appreciated. We will probably not be looking to buy until spring.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

Hi woodysways ,are you buying a tractor or wanting to finance one ,Big difference ! can you maintain an older model or will you be running to the dealer to change the oil ,again big difference , You want a tractor big enough to do the work but not so big you can't drive it between the trees , And the best deals are the week between Christmas and new years , The dealer will give away that model year tractor just to try to meet his sales quota for the year and month of Dec , In the spring you will pay top dollar new or used and the amount of choices will be less available ,Be smart buy when no one else is and save money ,And ask for free attachments like box blade and tiller or post hole auger you will need them later and have to pay full price ! and make sure you get a rig with the loader that is built for that model ,many guys in here bought the tractor first thinking they could easily find a loader but they are not cheap new or used ! :thumbsup:

 

[94BULLITT]

I would go with Kubota L3200/3800 or a L3540 or larger tractor for working in the woods and brush hogging.

 

[RAYJAY]

I getting a LS 3039h in about a week or so ( dealer has to install the FEL xtra hydro controls), as for dealers trying to sell off last year model its not happening this year on 25+ and up HP tractors,( yes i tried lol) with the tier 4 pollution coming for 2013 its a game changer on price,

with buying a skid steer is mowing the only thing its going to do?/ having a FEL on the tractor and the skid steer might make you more productive on clearing the land bucket on one and grapple on other, not really knowing what your clearing will there be a lot of stumps on site ? if so the skid steer ground clearance might be a issue.

Jeff

 

[Woodsyways]

Grumpy Old Man I have never bought anything on credit so I doubt I could qualify for a loan. With 0% interest I would prefer to finance though. Good to Know that the end of the year is the best time to buy. May have to wait until next year to get a tractor. I could pay cash but that would nearly deplete my savings. Can you work a better deal when paying cash?

Ray Jay we are only planing on clearing a small part of the property. We want to open up the property while retaining the larger trees. we plan to cut stumps of at ground level with a carbide chain so they shouldn't be a problem. My thoughts were to use the skid steer to mow the few acres of blackberries initially and use it for FEL/grapple work. The tractor would be used to keep on top of the berries, work the soil with cultivators, landscape rake, plant grass. With a bucket on the skid-steer I was considering not getting an FEL for the tractor.

Equipment is all pretty new to me so I am trying to get as much information and advice as I can before buying anything. On the skid-steer side of thing dad is thinking we should get a wheeled on and I am thinking we should get a tracked machine. So any advice on that would be appreciated as well.

Thanks for the responses so far and keep em coming!

 

[sea2summit]

I was considering not getting an FEL for the tractor.

Crazy talk, I considered not getting a backhoe and didn't now I have to kick myself twice a week for being stupid. You'd be supprised what a normal tractor can do to blackberry bushes, I've got an 1860 and I drove strait into the blackberry forrest a month back to retrieve a tree I had to take down before it landed on my roof, just put the FEL down and drove and it didn't even notice the blackberries and they where the ones with 20'+ vines and the works. I was pretty happy to be wearing an old army field jacket though

 

[rd_macgregor]

Obviously, I don't know your circumstance in detail, but I'm not sure I see why you need both a tractor and skid-steer. From your description, it sounds to me like the tractor, properly-equipped, should be enough. Blackberries are a nuisance, but not really an obstacle to a tractor with FEL and brush mower. If/when they try to make a comeback next year, you could nuke 'em with herbicide, then move right on to getting your orchard, vinyard or whatever started there.
To me, the only real advantages of a skid-steer are its hydraulic/lift capacity and manueverability. This trades off with the extra capital expense, low ground clearance and tippiness.
I'd go with a tractor in the 35hp range with brush mower, FEL with bucket and grapple rake to start. If you are buying new, you might get a better deal as a package. Also, if you can get additional hydraulic remotes installed at purchase for a good price, do it; it is hard to have too many remotes! Brand isn't REAL important (you have many to choose from in the Redding area: Kubota, Deere, NH, Kioti, Massey, Mahindra, Branson, Bobcat...I'm jealous that you have a TSC in Redding and in Red Bluff!... but if you are going to work in the woods a lot (eg, logging or firewood), I'd lean toward a choice with higher FEL lift capacity...if upgrading by 5 hp bought you another 500 lbs of lift, I'd say go for it. Unless you are mechanically adept, access to a reliable dealer/maintainer may be an important criterion in choosing brand.
With hilly land, all wheel drive and loaded tires is a good starting point. If you don't expect to be mowing lawns with the tractor, ag tires are probably a better bet for tractions. I have industrials on my Kioti DK45 and it does OK in the woods, but occasionally they pack up with mud and lose traction. The main advantages of industrials are that they don't rip up the ground/lawns quite as badly as ag tires and (the main reason I chose them) they have more plies (ie, are a bit tougher) than ags.
Transmission? Well, mine is a 12/12 gear model with shuttle shift, but, if I had it to do all over again, I'd get an HST, since I do a lot of hilly and woods work with the loader/grapple (rather than constant-speed field work).
Finally, I have a cab on my tractor, mainly because it lives outdoors. It is nice to have access to heating and AC and shelter from the weather and bugs, but it is nerve-wracking to use the cab in the woods. The cab adds a lot to the cost, though. The biggest plus of a cab for you in Redding, would likely be AC in the summer, but a canopy to keep the sun off might be enough(?).
BOB

 

[swick1]

You will definitely want a tractor with a loader, wheel spacers, and weights to keep it shiny side up. A ratchet rake will tearout those bushes as will a grapple. The bush hog is good to have as well as a weight box on the rear. Since you will be in the woods you should buy or build a heavy duty fops. The power company uses a 4x4 tractor with hydrostatic transmission and as much armor as a log skidder to clear their right of ways in the mountains of wv on slopes I don't think my dirt bike could climb or descend in a controlled manner.

 

[ovrszd]

I started with a Kubota B2910, then moved up to a Kubota L4400 and now have a Kubota M9540. In the beginning my use was almost all timber maintenance. The B2910 handled the light work but was too small for any type of stump removal or heavy carrying. The L4400 worked very well in the timber and handled most tasks. Then my work load grew and now I do a lot of open ground maintenance as well. The M9540 is best suited for that and can still do timber duty. All around I think the L series would best serve your needs. The B being a little small and the M being a little big.

As for stumps. Timber soil is heaved up due to root growth. You can scrape the foliage away and chainsaw a stump off flat with the ground, then start driving in that area and the soil will compact and you'll find your stump high enough to be a threat when brush hogging. So with that said, you'll find yourself trying to remove stumps and/or standing trees with the tractor. That's when most people realize they bought too small. For every user that claims to have bought a tractor that's too big, you'll find 100 that claim to have bought too small. I'd recommend a mid HP range Kubota L series or some other brand's comparable tractor, 40 hp area, definitely with FEL and all the additional hydraulic options you can afford. An FEL with 3rd function to run a grapple is a very cheap addition when doing timber work.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Woodsyways]

Finally, I have a cab on my tractor, mainly because it lives outdoors. It is nice to have access to heating and AC and shelter from the weather and bugs, but it is nerve-wracking to use the cab in the woods. The cab adds a lot to the cost, though. The biggest plus of a cab for you in Redding, would likely be AC in the summer, but a canopy to keep the sun off might be enough(?).
BOB

The property is in Dunsmuir so its usually about 10 degrees cooler than Redding. I have talked with a Kubota and Deer dealer who will deliver for free and they make service calls. Also, I have a buddy who is a mechanic and am not completely inept when it comes to mechanical work if I have a good manual.

There are a lot of areas where its so thick you have to walk with your hands in front of your face to shield it from tree branches so a cab is out of the question at this point. The appeal of a skid steer is the maneuverability (there are a lot of trees) and the fact that you can mow while looking forward. Dad will be using the equipment daily and he has a bad neck so looking backwards all the time would probably aggravate it. I only have saturdays to work up there.

Had been considering a B series tractor but it sounds like that would be a little small. What size stumps can a 35-40hp tractor handle? We will have about 15 20-30 inch stumps to remove from the future orchard. Probably wont be dealing with this size stumps regularly but 10-15 inch stumps will be fairly common.

With hilly land, all wheel drive and loaded tires is a good starting point.

Is all wheel dive the same as 4 wheel? Would probably go for industrial tires for increased puncture resistance and the added width.

As for stumps. Timber soil is heaved up due to root growth. You can scrape the foliage away and chainsaw a stump off flat with the ground, then start driving in that area and the soil will compact and you'll find your stump high enough to be a threat when brush hogging.

Good point I stuck my differential on a stump (we hadn't cut it down flush) but it was the last load and the ground had compacted. Not exactly fun to cut out a stump when your truck is sitting on it!

So it sounds like the recommendation for a tractor is about 40 hp with FEL, grapple, and brush hog. With all the hydraulic extras and HST. With a tractor that size what implements are good for rock removal for a garden site. Thanks for all the responses very helpful!

 

[joe t]

You will need a bulldozer to take out stumps probably. Also, an excavator works wonders on stumps as well.


I have kinda similar needs. I am buying another compact tractor because this will serve as a company tractor and we work in tight quarters. Also, on my wooded land it is so thick that a utility or medium sized tractor would be hard to swing around. We have Yupon around here and that stuff is like razors on springs, gotta be careful.



I'm looking at a 50hp tractor because I'm reading they can use a 10 ft brush hog. I'm not to familiar with skid steers but I've only seen them with like 5 or 6 ft mowers on them. Something to think about. It would be cool though with the skid steer to vertically hit tree branches with the mower since it is up front and you can lift it; if possible don't know. Also it is a little more shielded in the cab.

If the land isn't too thick I'd get a medium sized tractor with 50hp minimal. Little more umph.

Also a good basic compact in that hp to look is the Kubota MX line. Kubota seems to have a good dealer network.

 

[joe t]

Another thought is what process do you plan to use in clearing this?


See what your neighbors are doing. I've seen my neighbors do it different ways but generally if they want to keep it wooded they run a dozer through quickly and knock down the brush and trees they don't want then come back through with a brush hog. Seems like it is easier to get it all hogged down once it has been knocked down a little. I've done it similar and keep the brushhog up a little high on the first pass or so. I use the front end loader to push stuff I can't shred out of the way. Another bonus to the tractor. If you get good on it you can use the brakes to swing it left or right and push stuff out of the way with the FEL and never slow down much and continue on shredding.

So you might want to consider renting a dozer for a week to knock some stuff down, then using whatever tractor you buy to clean it up. If you have stumps in there then you can get the dozer again or excavator and go knock them out. Use your tractor to clean up and maintain afterwards.

 

[creekbend]

The other members have pretty well sum it up. I will only suggest you purchase a tractor with 4-WD and a FEL. The dealer you purchase from is just as important as the make and model. Please remember that a Tractor is not a piece of Heavy Equipment. BTW, you mentioned earlier that you found two dealers that offer free delivery. Most dealers offer this service unless you are located out of state or very far away. Best wishes. Reviewing the forums here on TBN, will definitely provide you with more insight regarding implements; etc. Best wishes.

 

[drnaum7]

I would suggest a 4WD diesel for that small acreage. I wish we lived closer and you could see the Field Pro 404 of mine that has less than 300 hours that has a from end loader. We used it with a brush hog and it works very well with that too. I am asking $9000, but I know that I am too far away for you to look at it. I understand that it is one of the best in that class made. It is Korean made. I would not get less than a 40 horsepower for what you need. 35 horsepower would be a strain on how much you have to take care of so I would think logically of what you say you would be using it for. This has a high and low gear to use and when doing heavy work the low gear is what I mainly used. High gear is moving quickly from job to job and I wouldn't use that for the real work. There is a backhoe attachment that can be purchased Just for this modle and if I keep this tractor I will most likely get it to dig me a root cellar and install some electric and water lines. Hope this is a help to you needs - Ron

 

[john_bud]

For 40 acres of heavy woods, a small machine is nice. I've been stuck with trees in front, trees on both sides
and a stump behind hanging the brush cutter and the only way out is with a chain saw and a lot of prayer that the trees fall in the desired direction! We have 280 acres of woods and a L3410. For some things, bigger would be better, but for most bigger would be worse.

I would also agree that to clear your orchard area, best bet is to have a dozer (D5 or D6 size) come in. For one-two thousand dollars you can get far more done than a small tractor can ever accomplish.

 

[crazyal]

If it was me I think I would go with a 40hp tractor. For a Kubota it would be an L size. I would get a logging winch for it and a couple of snatch blocks for pulling any trees you drop. With over 150' of cable it'll be able to get trees out of most of the steep parts and with the snatch blocks and some tree savers you can drag log around other trees even when you can't get your tractor in close. I would get a brush hog to take care of any blackberry patches. For the stumps I would rent a stump grinder to chip them up. Why would you want to dig them out and find a place on your land to put them when you can grind them up. I would also grind up any branches.

 

[flusher]

The property is in Dunsmuir so its usually about 10 degrees cooler than Redding. I have talked with a Kubota and Deer dealer who will deliver for free and they make service calls. Also, I have a buddy who is a mechanic and am not completely inept when it comes to mechanical work if I have a good manual.

There are a lot of areas where its so thick you have to walk with your hands in front of your face to shield it from tree branches so a cab is out of the question at this point. The appeal of a skid steer is the maneuverability (there are a lot of trees) and the fact that you can mow while looking forward. Dad will be using the equipment daily and he has a bad neck so looking backwards all the time would probably aggravate it. I only have saturdays to work up there.

Had been considering a B series tractor but it sounds like that would be a little small. What size stumps can a 35-40hp tractor handle? We will have about 15 20-30 inch stumps to remove from the future orchard. Probably wont be dealing with this size stumps regularly but 10-15 inch stumps will be fairly common.



Is all wheel dive the same as 4 wheel? Would probably go for industrial tires for increased puncture resistance and the added width.



Good point I stuck my differential on a stump (we hadn't cut it down flush) but it was the last load and the ground had compacted. Not exactly fun to cut out a stump when your truck is sitting on it!

So it sounds like the recommendation for a tractor is about 40 hp with FEL, grapple, and brush hog. With all the hydraulic extras and HST. With a tractor that size what implements are good for rock removal for a garden site. Thanks for all the responses very helpful!

Take a drive down to Red Bluff and see Dave Siemens at Dave's Tractors. He's a distributor for Mahindra tractors and will help you out. Dave posts a lot here on TBN.

My big tractor is a 2008 Mahindra 5525 (55 hp engine, 45 hp pto, 2WD, 8F/2R tranny (partially syncromeshed) power steering) that I bought new from Dave.

What you need is seat time on tractors in the 30-50 hp range in order to make an informed buying decision. Drive them and ask questions.

Good luck

 

[timbatrader]

I have three machines started with a skid steer Bobcat743 then bought a old 2wd tractor later. The skid steer is purpose built to move dirt much better at making and maintaining tracks than a tractor with front end loader the skid steer just is so much stronger with real breakout force and can turn in its own length handy on long narrow tracks. The tractor has a PTO needed for mowers chippers firewood saws etc. Recently bought a small dozer mainly for track development on hills the skid steer just won’t get up
By the way I had a lot of blackberry here mostly under control now I reckon you need to mow/mulch it then spray the regrowth for several years. Spray alone or mowing alone will not do it you need both