Unfair Competition

[Recoveryhill]

A recent post, which has disappeared, was made by a Chinese company looking for advice on how to market some unspecified products to the tractor community, in the U.S.

The reply from a poster in North Carolina made a number of assertions, which may or may not be true. The bottom line however seemed to be a rant in defense of U.S. commerce against the "Red Chinese" threat.

North Carolina Tesla ban? Bill would prevent "unfair competition" with car dealerships.

Well it appears that North Carolina is not only a bastion of protectionism against China, but against California as well. With as much emphasis there is on this site about getting the best price, it is difficult to understand support for laws that stand in the way of real competition. Please don't throw the "but where do I get service for a tractor or automobile purchased directly from the manufacturer", curve ball, at me. No serious seller of vehicles or farming or construction equipment can afford not to have local service available. As far as contributions to the YMCA goes for an excuse, I'll leave that to your imagination whether or not this is a valid reason for restraint of trade which results in higher prices to the end user. Dealers after all claim that they make little or no money off a sale, it is after market and service that keeps them alive? I call their bluff.

I recently requested prices from my purchase Dealer in Miami for parts for a Bush Hog SQ160, to compare to Messick's posted pricing. I didn't even hear back and will place the order at Messicks in the coming days. Should purchase of parts by North Carolinians from sources outside of North Carolina also be illegal? Where does it end, China or wherever.... Business is business, that's the reality in 2013.

Food for thought, hard hat in place.....

 

[DT86]

The reply from a poster in North Carolina made a number of assertions, which may or may not be true. The bottom line however seemed to be a rant in defense of U.S. commerce against the "Red Chinese" threat....

I think his post was fueled by the Chinese company stating, in another thread, that they were going to copy existing designs by American manufacturers. The plan was to then compete against the same manufacturers they had ripped off.

The wording of his post might not have been the most tasteful but I agree with the message.

 

[Ted Summey]

I will simply say two things:

1. The Republicans in NC seem to have run on the principle of free enterprise and less government, but once in power have not lived up to that campaign rhetoric. This article points it out in this case, there are others.

2. A number of other bills and discussion in the NC General Assembly have demonstrated a regressive position of the current prevailing party. This article clearly demonstrates that as well. One current discussion is regarding elimination. Of the income tax and relying only on a sales tax, such a notion clearly penalizes senior citizens who have already been taxed but will be taxed again if the increased sales tax goes through under the current proposal.

The Democrats have had their chances as well but did not do what had to be done to help this state continue on a positive trend.

I am apolitical as I can be.

 

[Alan L.]

I see nothing wrong with outlawing products that are in violation of US patents, regardless of where they come from.

 

[creekbend]

I think his post was fueled by the Chinese company stating, in another thread, that they were going to copy existing designs by American manufacturers. The plan was to then compete against the same manufacturers they had ripped off.

The wording of his post might not have been the most tasteful but I agree with the message.

Facts are facts. Political Correctness seems to be the apparent mode when communicating nowadays. I agree completely with Nations trading commodities, but FAIR Trade Policies should be followed. I have a question for everyone that commented on North Carolina Politics. It matters not which State it affects, but Fair Trade Standards must be followed, and Patents must be honored. Here is the question: "Who among You, while engaged in a fight for your Home and Country, would resent to unfair Compromise? If you are in a fight and your Opponent breaks his weapon - a stick - would you call a TRUCE and gather a larger and stouter STICK for your opponent to "Bash Your Head With"? Just a thought. Thanks for listening.

 

[creekbend]

Facts are facts. Political Correctness seems to be the apparent mode when communicating nowadays. I agree completely with Nations trading commodities, but FAIR Trade Policies should be followed. I have a question for everyone that commented on North Carolina Politics. It matters not which State it affects, but Fair Trade Standards must be followed, and Patents must be honored. Here is the question: "Who among You, while engaged in a fight for your Home and Country, would resent to unfair Compromise? If you are in a fight and your Opponent breaks his weapon - a stick - would you call a TRUCE and gather a larger and stouter STICK for your opponent to "Bash Your Head With"? Just a thought. Thanks for listening.

BTW, if any member can find FAULT in my Post, please explain. I'm willing to learn and listen to both subjective, objective, and controversial opinions. Thanks again for listening.

 

[MikeInEburg]

BTW, if any member can find FAULT in my Post, please explain. I'm willing to learn and listen to both subjective, objective, and controversial opinions. Thanks again for listening.

Well, I wouldn't normally point this out, but since you asked... Your post does not appear to follow the English standards for capitalization. While I understand the all-caps for emphasis, other words are capitalized for no apparent reason. There are also some slight punctuation problems, but no recurring patterns there. Or...were you asking about content?

 

[daugen]

yo Mike, Creekbend is a little older, like me, and used to using caps in letters when we really did write it out by hand.
Capitalizing was a good way to show emphasis, where you wanted extra attention paid, in a page of little letters. Long
before all caps became digitally non pc.

now I thought you were funny and I'm sure so did Creekbend. I was once told communication was an art, we need to practice it.
'but I cannot imagine being involved in a forum of English teachers. Drive you nuts. You say potato, I say pototo...

 

[dave1949]

I will simply say two things:

1. The Republicans in NC seem to have run on the principle of free enterprise and less government, but once in power have not lived up to that campaign rhetoric. This article points it out in this case, there are others.

2. A number of other bills and discussion in the NC General Assembly have demonstrated a regressive position of the current prevailing party. This article clearly demonstrates that as well. One current discussion is regarding elimination. Of the income tax and relying only on a sales tax, such a notion clearly penalizes senior citizens who have already been taxed but will be taxed again if the increased sales tax goes through under the current proposal.

The Democrats have had their chances as well but did not do what had to be done to help this state continue on a positive trend.

I am apolitical as I can be.

That's the only way I think.

Tax reform is currently a hot topic in many states now. We have a current proposal to remove all sales tax exemptions--even on food at the grocery store and heating oil/gas--cut the income tax in half, cut property taxes, then rebate some of the sales taxes to low income people. It is regressive.

Taxing groceries would add about $7 per week to my bill, or ~$350 per year. The other removed exemptions wouldn't affect me personally very much, seems like everything I buy is already taxed. My property tax and income tax cut savings would easily offset that increase.

For those not paying much income or property tax, the rebate is their only hope of not paying more taxes than they do now. I doubt landlords will reduce rents when they pay less property or income taxes. Services, besides being newly sales taxed, will not get cheaper all of a sudden due to a lower tax burden on the providers.

We need a simple tax system that is reasonably fair to all. I think moving away from reliance on income taxes will always be regressive.

 

[murphy1244]

yo? what is yo?

 

[linuxman51]

yo? what is yo?

a two letter word formed by joining "y" and "o" and is often used (interchangeably) with "hey", a three letter word that is generally taken to mean "you there"

 

[brin]

yo Mike, Creekbend is a little older, like me, and used to using caps in letters when we really did write it out by hand.
Capitalizing was a good way to show emphasis, where you wanted extra attention paid, in a page of little letters. Long
before all caps became digitally non pc.

now I thought you were funny and I'm sure so did Creekbend. I was once told communication was an art, we need to practice it.
'but I cannot imagine being involved in a forum of English teachers. Drive you nuts. You say potato, I say pototo...

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[brin]

yo? what is yo?

The pres says it all the time in his speeches ..he says Yo & Tah....start counting the times....next time you hear him speak...it won't take long he campaigns 24/7

 

[daugen]

now this is funny, seems "yo" is not heard in the Midwest, but not uncommon in parts of the East.
But "Tah"??? Now Brin I don't know what that one is .... is it Chicago speak? Urban mumble?

 

[murphy1244]

now this is funny, seems "yo" is not heard in the Midwest, but not uncommon in parts of the East.
But "Tah"??? Now Brin I don't know what that one is .... is it Chicago speak? Urban mumble?

WTF is Tah? Only heard yo on TV.

 

[daugen]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...276814-jack-china-tractor-factory-say-23.html

I was active in the forum the OP refers to, and tried to gently suggest to the new member from China that saying one
"copies" other products is considered cheating, and no one wants to buy from a cheater. He seemed to understand that very well.
And his comment back something to the effect of "China not too worried over patents" is the understatement of the year.

there is a huge population of the world that cannot afford anything but the lowest priced consumer products. Third world emerging countries, many in Africa, are a huge new market. I'm not worried about China not finding enough markets, just don't sell copies in our market, and if you want our respect, don't sell them anywhere.

 

[Recoveryhill]

As the OP, I think the range of comments over this "hot topic" were well thought out and presented.

I like many am concerned about China's disregard for fair play. It is however, difficult to pin that tag on lower cost folk producing blades, rakes, plows and the like. I don't think the patent arguments hold up well for basic farm attachments, which is what I assumed they wanted to market? When it comes to patent infringement, South Korea appears to be the current market leader, without shame. Dumping any class of goods, below cost, is illegal both in the U.S. and Europe and there are ongoing proceedings against China for both.

The North Carolina attempt to block Tesla from selling automobiles online into the state mirrors the laws funeral directors had passed, in many states. It was and is illegal in those states to purchase a casket from anyone other than an in-state funeral director. Forget the fact that a similar going away box cost many times the value of the product when handled that way, it is a limitation on freedom of the customer to force such a market.

I am more comfortable with a California car company than a Chinese exporter but suggest we keep our eyes open to manipulation of markets on both the international and local level.

I tend to a poor man's estate in the Caribbean and have been here for decades but my roots are in Southern Appalachia. I am personally not concerned about the Chinese Reds occupying West Virginia and god help them were they to try to occupy Texas and feel free to add your local ability to defend yourselves against the Red Army occupying city hall : )

 

[creekbend]

yo? what is yo?

That's "Queen's English". Tomato or "Mater".

 

[newbury]

<snip>
North Carolina Tesla ban? Bill would prevent "unfair competition" with car dealerships.

Well it appears that North Carolina is not only a bastion of protectionism against China, but against California as well. With as much emphasis there is on this site about getting the best price, it is difficult to understand support for laws that stand in the way of real competition. Please don't throw the "but where do I get service for a tractor or automobile purchased directly from the manufacturer", curve ball, at me. No serious seller of vehicles or farming or construction equipment can afford not to have local service available. As far as contributions to the YMCA goes for an excuse, I'll leave that to your imagination whether or not this is a valid reason for restraint of trade which results in higher prices to the end user. Dealers after all claim that they make little or no money off a sale, it is after market and service that keeps them alive? I call their bluff.

I recently requested prices from my purchase Dealer in Miami for parts for a Bush Hog SQ160, to compare to Messick's posted pricing. I didn't even hear back and will place the order at Messicks in the coming days. Should purchase of parts by North Carolinians from sources outside of North Carolina also be illegal? Where does it end, China or wherever.... Business is business, that's the reality in 2013.

Food for thought, hard hat in place.....

When I purchased my '09 VW JSW TDI they were in HIGH demand, of my local VW dealers only one would even bother to laugh at me for getting what I wanted in a timely manner. Happily Chris Farnham at VW of Langhorne (PA) was able to get the model with the options I wanted in a timely fashion for a discounted price. I'm sure several dealerships around here wished local customers had to wait for them to buy it locally.

I think the NC law is good for NC car dealers and is a typical political tactic of protecting those who give them the most money.

How did they vote on the background check for buying guns? Which 70% of the voters, but NOT the big money givers, supported.

We don't get all the laws we need, we get all the laws money can buy.

 

[crazyal]

If you read up on the NC law it wasn't much of anything. Tesla was trying to use a loophole to avoid the existing law (requiring any MFG of cars to actually have at least one dealership in the state). All that happened is that Tesla is now put on equal ground with all the other car companies. You can debate if the original law is good or bad but not changing it to make all mfgs equal.

Tesla is going to sell about 150 cars this year in NC. Their business model is that any garage can do the usual "car" work like tires and brakes and a trained crew can be sent to you to repair a car. That's OK when you're small but if the company grows it'll be impossible. Also it leaves the buyer at a disadvantage in case of a dispute (lemon law). NC requires dealers to post a bond before getting their license. That bond is there in case the mfg or dealer tries something underhanded. If Tesla is serious about selling cars then there is no reason why they can't act like every other mfg selling cars in NC.