Dump truck vs dump trailer

[Reg]

Wow, some great discussion already! I'll try to fill in the blanks.
Yes, the truck would be able to reach anyplace I'd want to take it.
When I pull the snowmobile trailer now, I almost always have it on my pickup as I have to take it off-site to unload. That being said, my current truck is a Silverado 1500 crew, I beleive the tow capacity is 8000# or so, and being a super short box, it can't be used for a gooseneck. I may get a new one sometime, but likely still be a 1500 as I use it for my daily driver and can't justify thousands of additional cost just to pull a super heavy trailer occasionally.
Here in NE, there is no vehicle inspection requirement per se. so that isn't a concern. This truck has a 350ci engine (I think), and would be largely pre-emission, etc, so maintenence should be pretty simple. I have a shop full of 350 engines and parts leftover from my racing days, so should be fine there.
I get the issue of larger payload on a trailer, but given the limitation of my current pickup, that wouldn't be a large disadvantage. Tree limbs and brush get dumped about a mile away, so pretty easy trip. The place where I get driveway rock is under 5 miles away, so making extra trips wouldn't be the end of the world. If I need a lot, I'm going to have them deliver in a 10yd truck anyway.
I think it would be a hoot to have a true med duty dumptruck, but as noted the expense, hassles, etc, don't allow for that.
I totally understand that the dump trailer is probably an overall better option, but is it twice as good when considering price?

I just re-read this bit; "and being a super short box, it can't be used for a gooseneck. "
Why not ?

The short box and gooseneck trailer issue is about cab to axle distance and trailer nose width.
i.e. ball to cab had better be at least 1/2 trailer nose width if you want to do 90 degree jack-knifed spin-around turns.
Unless you want some crazy wide top deck on it you can do full spins without cracking the trailer against the cab.
VERY FEW RV or horse trailers are 8 ft wide, most taper to 5 ft.
I can see a gooseneck equipment trailer being useful with a 5ft wide upper deck nose.

Not that I endorse spin turns, they are HARD on tires, hubs, just about everything else unless you are on very soft footing.

 

[Xfaxman]

Wow, some great discussion already! I'll try to fill in the blanks.
my current truck is a Silverado 1500 crew, I beleive the tow capacity is 8000# or so, and being a super short box, it can't be used for a gooseneck.

It can be used for a gooseneck, just install a B&W Turnoverball hitch, made for your truck: Gooseneck Hitch | B & W Trailer Hitches

If you need a little more clearance, use this: 4" Extender - Turnoverball

For 10" more clearance for a horse trailer, use this: Gooseneck Hitch Extension | B & W Trailer Hitches

I have a friend that pulls a two horse GN with a 1/2 ton Dodge, shortest bed they make, with this setup.

 

[IMCA38]

I'm not contesting the fact that you can put an extender on the gooseneck, etc. It's just that my owner's manual says the 5'8" box isn't supposed to do a gooseneck.
As far as dumping my snowmobile trailer, it does have a pin on the tongue, but by adding the weight of the plywood sides, it doesn't tip very well and when tipped, it's only about 30 degrees or so with the tail on the ground, so not enough to get anything to slide out.
Here is a pic I found on Google of a similar truck, except that the one I've found is SRW.

 

[Xfaxman]

I'm not contesting the fact that you can put an extender on the gooseneck, etc. It's just that my owner's manual says the 5'8" box isn't supposed to do a gooseneck.

I sure would like to know the reason why.

 

[Reg]

It can be used for a gooseneck, just install a B&W Turnoverball hitch, made for your truck: Gooseneck Hitch | B & W Trailer Hitches

If you need a little more clearance, use this: 4" Extender - Turnoverball

For 10" more clearance for a horse trailer, use this: Gooseneck Hitch Extension | B & W Trailer Hitches

I have a friend that pulls a two horse GN with a 1/2 ton Dodge, shortest bed they make, with this setup.

Just know that the so called "Gooseneck extensions" are in fact "Gooseneck OFF-SETS"
They merely offset the trailer some number of inches BACK, but it is back along the trailer's center-line.
The trailer's nose width is still what the cab to ball distance needs to be less than half of.

SUMMARY: Don't think these extensions will solve the cab clipping issue, the trailer hits the cab from the SIDE when it folds up too far.
At that time the trailer is off-set to the SIDE of the truck, not farther BACK from the cab.

 

[Reg]

I'm not contesting the fact that you can put an extender on the gooseneck, etc. It's just that my owner's manual says the 5'8" box isn't supposed to do a gooseneck.
As far as dumping my snowmobile trailer, it does have a pin on the tongue, but by adding the weight of the plywood sides, it doesn't tip very well and when tipped, it's only about 30 degrees or so with the tail on the ground, so not enough to get anything to slide out.
Here is a pic I found on Google of a similar truck, except that the one I've found is SRW.

View attachment 319419

It isn't about box length - it IS about cab to ball distance and THAT needs to be more than 1/2 the trailer's nose width.
Ignore recommendations about off-set couplers (so called gooseneck extensions) they merely put the trailer a few inches farther back along the trailer's center line, they do NOTHING for cab clipping, that is ALL about (1/2 of) trailer nose width versus cab to ball distance.

 

[Morning Wood]

A SRW pickup with a dumping flatbed will have zero payload. You want a dually 1 ton at least. Even a 7k dump trailer will have a better payload than a 1 ton dump

 

[Gale Hawkins]

It is really simple if you do it from a math angle.

In all cases for the guy with no equipment picking up an older truck with a flat dump makes for a very handy thing to have around a farm.

The guy with a truck to pull his 100' RV might consider a trailer.

NO pivot points is a personal requirement.

Having a rig that I can whack with the FEL or backhoe bucket/boom and not lose any sleep is a plus in my case.

 

[Xfaxman]

Just know that the so called "Gooseneck extensions" are in fact "Gooseneck OFF-SETS"
They merely offset the trailer some number of inches BACK, but it is back along the trailer's center-line.
The trailer's nose width is still what the cab to ball distance needs to be less than half of.

SUMMARY: Don't think these extensions will solve the cab clipping issue, the trailer hits the cab from the SIDE when it folds up too far.
At that time the trailer is off-set to the SIDE of the truck, not farther BACK from the cab.

The extensions work! My friend has been using it for over two years! Going forward, turning as far as possible the trailer clears the cab. Backing up while turning too sharp will crunch the cab, but that is true even with a long bed.

It isn't about box length - it IS about cab to ball distance and THAT needs to be more than 1/2 the trailer's nose width.
Ignore recommendations about off-set couplers (so called gooseneck extensions) they merely put the trailer a few inches farther back along the trailer's center line, they do NOTHING for cab clipping, that is ALL about (1/2 of) trailer nose width versus cab to ball distance.

Why ignore something that works? :confused3: The 4" offset ball allows the trailer to be jacknifed when backing.


None of this applies to the OP, a gooseneck dump trailer will work on a super shortbed truck with out an extension. :thumbsup:

 

[yelbike]

I sure would like to know the reason why.

I wonder what the liability would be if the manual specifically does NOT recommend the goose neck trailer on that particular truck configuration in the event of an accident. I have a 5'6" box on my Lincoln lt, I was "TOLD" a fifth wheel RV simply won't fit, but that may not be true I guess. BTW at least some if not most RVs are full 8' pretty much right up to the front.

 

[Reg]

It applies IF the O/P is considering a gooseneck with an upper deck that has any appreciable width.
That is the usual reason for "short bed" trucks not being able to handle gooseneck or 5th wheel trailers - - cab crunch.
My SIL has a goose with an upper deck that is a full 8 ft 6in at the front.
Wide upper decks CAN be useful for hauling tractor implements around.
My own goose tapers to 5 ft., though I have swing clearance that allows me to pull his.

It applies IF the cab to ball distance is equal to or less than 1/2 such trailer's nose width - in fact it needs to be a bit more to allow for dips and bumps.
The extenders do NOT move the trailer farther back when folded up, merely to the side and in the cab crunch scenario "to the side" doesn't do any good.

Don't ask how I know this, I just DO !
Your friend may well have something that has "worked for two years" or he may not realize what is really happening, e.g. he may not know that it is not applicable.

A long enough gooseneck trailer will fold up enough going forwards if the truck can turn tight enough, mine does.
I watch the trailer wheels at that point, when the ones on the inside of the turn start going backwards while the truck is still going forwards I back off - there is no point in turning any sharper than that.
The exception is if I have really screwed up and have to clear a wall or ditch, but I try to not do that, or I get out of the situation and start over (-:

The picture you added is of a goose that I wouldn't consider, it has very little upper deck space.
Perhaps useful purely as a dump trailer, but for my uses I want AREA as much as load capacity, e.g. I want to be able to put a couple of tractor implements up there.

 

[Xfaxman]

I wonder what the liability would be if the manual specifically does NOT recommend the goose neck trailer on that particular truck configuration in the event of an accident. I have a 5'6" box on my Lincoln lt, I was "TOLD" a fifth wheel RV simply won't fit, but that may not be true I guess. BTW at least some if not most RVs are full 8' pretty much right up to the front.

Yes, true for fifth wheel, gooseneck is a completely different hitch.

 

[Xfaxman]

I've been longing for a hydraulic dump trailer to use around the place, but I can't justify the cost of $4500+.
..................
I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts on the subject.

Thanks

Here is another option for off road use:

Tracked Dumper.


Articulated 4WD Dumper.


I found mine on eBay three and a half years ago.

Hauling brush.


Hauling about 13,000 pounds of dirt.

 

[IMCA38]

Wow, I bet those are even more! Problem would be taking it off premises then.

 

[Xfaxman]

Wow, I bet those are even more! Problem would be taking it off premises then.

Depends on how far. It has a road gear, put a SMV sign on it and it would be just like driving a tractor down the road.

It weighs a little over nine thousand pounds, so I can haul it on my trailer.

 

[Harold_J]

It isn't about box length - it IS about cab to ball distance and THAT needs to be more than 1/2 the trailer's nose width...

Isn't this just playing with words? Short box pickup has less cab-to-axle disstance than long box version of same truck. So therefore a properly positioned gooseneck ball will be closer to the cab, so in practical terms it IS about box length.

 

[Reg]

Isn't this just playing with words? Short box pickup has less cab-to-axle disstance than long box version of same truck. So therefore a properly positioned gooseneck ball will be closer to the cab, so in practical terms it IS about box length.

No,
The SPECS are always in terms of cab to axle distance.
For a standard pick-up truck (that may have a "long bed") it is 58 inches, for a chassis/cab it is 60 inches.
Body up-fitters need this to be standard, so that such things as dump bodies and ambulance shells can FIT.

The goose ball needs to be AHEAD of the axle, as far as practical but 8 inches is a good/fair distance.
There is a mistaken belief that OVER the rear axle is the proper place, but that leads to teeter-tottering, which feels very unstable.
There are sometimes other trade-offs, e.g. if you also want tool boxes or aux tanks just go for LOW ones, not anything above the bed rails.

What hangs out behind the rear axle is almost irrelevant - unless/until you leave a tailgate down and only discover it on a tight turn (-:
Cab crunch happens, truck corners don't hit trailer front walls - propane tanks or other stuff that an owner has added without much thought - maybe.

 

[IMCA38]

To add a bit of context to the discussion, here is a pic of my existing trailer. As you can see, it wouldn't take much to represent a significant upgrade.

 

[smokinmad]

Well lets see...You have to license both, so what is your annual license cost. It cost me more to put tags on a truck than a trailer. Then.....you have to put Insurance on that Truck....How much would you drive the Dump truck? Or would it sit, till needed like a trailer....

 

[kthompson]

We have a dump trailer that is 6 by 10 with dual axles. Used it a good bit and then bought a Chevy 3500 before they down rated them. Had a 8 by 14 bed. Per Chevy Commercial Truck salesman the one I had was about same capacity as the short lived 4500. I used the truck for about 3 or 4 years and was so glad the day it was sold and we still use the trailer. Reasons: we do a lot of work on farm and rather pull trailer with tractor and hook into the tractors remotes than wait for the electric pump to run on the trailer or the dump truck. With tractor easy to back or pull it where needed and can turn tighter circles. Also no tag in SC needed and towing vehicles insurance covers it.

I would not buy a dump truck with electric over hyd again. PERIOD as those beds do not raise fast not to high enough angle to dump damp dirt. Same for trailer. I bought a trunk in poor condition but the price was right, did not find it fun to drive and you need 50 acres to make a turn...well maybe only 5 acres. Was told they have stops to prevent the front tires turning as sharp as pickup to prevent high speed turns with loads to help prevent roll overs.

Dump truck has higher bed than trailer most likely, not likely to haul a tractor in there or such and if you need to get in there not as easy for me anyway. But it allows you to dump a bigger load in a pile than the trailer might be able to.

If something is to be replaced on the truck it will be costly most likely while trailer has little really working parts. But you are putting load on tow vehicle.

You need to remember you are to cover loads on either when on the road. Any problem on the truck reaching what ever system you have? My biggest recommendation is to avoid the electric over hyd period. Due to speed or lack of it for dumping and how little they do raise or all I have compared to the true hyd dump rigs.

How often you need it to me also plays a big part, if seldom a trailer if at least once a week maybe the truck. If you use it often do buy a truck that is easy to drive so you will.