Driveway Gate - 'how to' questions and a challenge

[tractchores]

I'm starting work on a new project shortly and wanted to tap into the expertise of TBN.

The project
I am planning on installing a driveway gate, which will be between two stone pillars (3'x3'x6'). I'm hoping to do a swing open gate that's 12' wide. I haven't yet decided on a control system, but am thinking of either a remote + keypad type of system - though I'm nervous the keypad will be destroyed in the winter with plowing. The 12' width is a good match for the location as it is at the end of a .5 mi long private road, which is about 10' wide, so if something can't fit in the gate it's not going to fit down the road either (heavily forested). I'll use my B2920 BH to dig down 4' for a proper frost footing on the columns and run wrought iron fence off to either side of the columns for a finished look. The gate will likely be aluminum or iron and the goal is more privacy than hard core security (I get a lot of 'turn arounds' and people checking out my property looking for access to the pond / lake it's on).

The Challenges
The gate is to be located about 500' from the house. This presents two major challenges:
1) - How do I get power to the gate? The power service comes in on poles next to the driveway and then the last few hundred feet are buried. The meter is on the house, so to get power from my existing drop I believe that I need to trench 500' from the house or a slightly shorter distance from the garage in rocky wooded soil (a pain). Code is 18" deep. My other option is to get the power company to put an additional service drop on one of the poles and trench from the pole (< 100'), but the service will have some cost associated with it. I haven't found out if you can have two meters on one account and 'merge' the services to cut down on the minimum monthly costs of a service. Anyone ever done this? Any advice on the trenching? I'm thinking of buying an 8" bucket VS using my 16" installed now for the project.

2) The second challenge is directly related to the first. For a swing gate I believe I need electric power to both columns, which are on opposite sides of a paved driveway. The driveway was installed a year ago, so I REALLY don't want to dig it up. I can either trench back to the house on both sides of it (500+' on each side) or find a way to feed the wire under the driveway without disturbing the pavement. Anyone ever done anything like this? Pavement is about 10' wide at this point. In this scenario the power poles are only on one side of the drive.

Sorry for the long post!

 

[brin]

For cutting a trench for power lines I use a sub soiler...Agri Supply has a sub soiler and pipe layer combo in their recent cataglogue for $100 and change....

Have you considered solar power for your gate openers...?

 

[Jimbrown]

In my opinion your assumptions are wrong. You do not need power solar will run it just fine. The gate needs to be 16ft any smaller you will regret it. Here are a couple pictures of my gate. The opener is an Apollo 3600.

If it really bothers you to cut a 2inch slot in the pavement to run the control wires then you can open a 12ft single gate with an opener on just one side.

And you have to have control wires from the controller to both sides of the gate if you use double gates. You ain't gonna be able to run the control wires from the controller all the way to the house and then back down the other side.

I lightened up the controller pic so you can see the actuator better.

The white stuff on the controller box is some styro foam where I was trying to keep the Arizona sun off it when I thought it might be over heating.

Gate openers have been discussed a lot on here. They are another one of things that you get what you pay for.

 

[PumpingPete]

Jimbrown, that is one heck of a fence!

 

[Jimbrown]

It is not as big as it looks. I forgot how long it is about 250 ft I think But you can see it on google maps

 

[hawkeye08]

If you don't want to cut the pavement to cross and can't run back to the house due to the distance (for the control lines), then the other choice seems to be overhead. Perhaps a 16' pole (total height from ground) in the middle of your columns so you can run lines across? or put an arch across that has a conduit hidden on the back..

 

[Soundguy]

you can get electric gates with a 5-30w solar cell and a small battery.

I have an electric gate on my farm 16' tube gate and a GTO/MM 350 opener. never runs out of power even in the winter.

so there is your power issue.

they make a latch lock that needs power. if you need to go under the road. step back off the road a couple feet to get out of the stabilized shoulder dig straight down with a shovel, and then clear out in front of the small hole you have dug. you are now under the grade of the drive. get a pvc pipe and a garden hose .. adapt over and water jet a hole under the road... then run some low voltage line under to power the latch if you need a latch over there. optionall the latch could run off 1 5w panel and a battery as well.. and no digging.

for the keypad / plow issue.

make your keypa mount to an arm that stick out and s on a pipe swivel.

ie.. bury a pipe well back away from the plow.. slip another pipe over it, atop that pipe.. put an arm with keypad to aim where you need it.

you can use a trampoleen or screen door spring to auto center the arm. that way if it is knocked away, it will swing harmlessly then center. we do this at work at a rock pit in case a semi truck / trailer hits a keypad.

for more money you can upgrade to an apollo kit..

 

[Dr_Zinj]

I like Jimbrown's place. No nonsense gate that keeps the honest people honest, and anyone approaching the house not let through the gate is obviously persona non grata. Plenty of clear zone of fire for shooting drug runners. And doesn't look like too bad of a commute into Tucson for work. If I ever take MIDAS Inc.s offer of employment, I'd be looking for a similar place.

 

[tractchores]

For cutting a trench for power lines I use a sub soiler...Agri Supply has a sub soiler and pipe layer combo in their recent cataglogue for $100 and change....
Have you considered solar power for your gate openers...?

A sub soiler is an interesting idea, do you think it would get down 18" How about in rocky soil? I have a HUGE number of rocks (basically clay soil over glacial till with boulders).

For solar power I have considered that, but have a severe lack of sunlight at the location. It's in middle of a mature forest and the gate will be N/S facing, the area gets virtually no sunlight, so even solar LED lighting has trouble.

In my opinion your assumptions are wrong. You do not need power solar will run it just fine. The gate needs to be 16ft any smaller you will regret it. Here are a couple pictures of my gate. The opener is an Apollo 3600.
If it really bothers you to cut a 2inch slot in the pavement to run the control wires then you can open a 12ft single gate with an opener on just one side.
And you have to have control wires from the controller to both sides of the gate if you use double gates. You ain't gonna be able to run the control wires from the controller all the way to the house and then back down the other side.
I lightened up the controller pic so you can see the actuator better.
The white stuff on the controller box is some styro foam where I was trying to keep the Arizona sun off it when I thought it might be over heating.
Gate openers have been discussed a lot on here. They are another one of things that you get what you pay for.

Nice gates and fence! I can't go 16' or the gates will be in the trees and as per above the .5 mi road has trees close on the sides and 12' is probably the widest you could fit down it without undertaking a major logging operation. Your comment on the pavement actually makes me think... I could actually redo with a line of cobblestones or something similar so that I don't create a 'patch' look in the pavement. I just hate to cut it after having spent so much to get it redone last year! My hope was I may be able to drill from one hole to the other with a piece of conduit and route wires that way, though I'm not sure exactly how I can do that....

Do you know how much power your actuators require to operate by chance?

If you don't want to cut the pavement to cross and can't run back to the house due to the distance (for the control lines), then the other choice seems to be overhead. Perhaps a 16' pole (total height from ground) in the middle of your columns so you can run lines across? or put an arch across that has a conduit hidden on the back..

Interesting idea, I'd have to create some kind of overhead opening, I wouldn't want to just hang the wires as it would ruin the aesthetics. My big concern with that is them getting destroyed by falling trees or branches. The area is heavily forested and we've had some very severe storms the last 5 years, so falling debris is a real concern (we lose power a LOT and if our service wasn't underground would have had it destroyed every single year for the last 5 years)

 

[brin]

A sub soiler is an interesting idea, do you think it would get down 18" How about in rocky soil? I have a HUGE number of rocks (basically clay soil over glacial till with boulders).

For solar power I have considered that, but have a severe lack of sunlight at the location. It's in middle of a mature forest and the gate will be N/S facing, the area gets virtually no sunlight, so even solar LED lighting has trouble.



Nice gates and fence! I can't go 16' or the gates will be in the trees and as per above the .5 mi road has trees close on the sides and 12' is probably the widest you could fit down it without undertaking a major logging operation. Your comment on the pavement actually makes me think... I could actually redo with a line of cobblestones or something similar so that I don't create a 'patch' look in the pavement. I just hate to cut it after having spent so much to get it redone last year! My hope was I may be able to drill from one hole to the other with a piece of conduit and route wires that way, though I'm not sure exactly how I can do that....

Do you know how much power your actuators require to operate by chance?


Yes,,,, I have used my subsoiler to go down for water lines and power..you can go over it twice or three times if needed and I have heavy red clay...Georgia...here is a link for the attachment to lay pipe...scroll down and click on the sub soiler it goes with...
3 Point Pipelayer Fits ASC 73410 The rocks I ran into are just pushed aside..the subsoiler blade is such that the rocks push away unless they are boulders...LOL

If you don't have the sunlight then solar is out I suppose. too bad, but those can be stolen and damaged , whereas hard wired electric is not a problem.

 

[tractchores]

Just found this video regarding drilling under a driveway. Not sure what machine is being used here, but this technique may solve my wiring problem between the columns, especially if I keep the wire close to the pavement where there are no boulders (code allows it to be shallower under a hard surface like pavement).

How to tunnel under driveway for lawn sprinkler system. - YouTube

I like the subsoiler idea, that may be a nice way to run the cables. I'll have to see if there is any code thing that requires an open trench for inspection. That would certainly save me a LOT of digging!

 

[Jimbrown]

If you don't want to dig the trench for control wires have you considered a sliding type gate. I personally don't like them but they work. My openers run on 12 volts. Even if you run power all you are doing is pluggin in a small wallwart charger about half an amp I think.

 

[brin]

Just found this video regarding drilling under a driveway. Not sure what machine is being used here, but this technique may solve my wiring problem between the columns, especially if I keep the wire close to the pavement where there are no boulders (code allows it to be shallower under a hard surface like pavement).

How to tunnel under driveway for lawn sprinkler system. - YouTube

I like the subsoiler idea, that may be a nice way to run the cables. I'll have to see if there is any code thing that requires an open trench for inspection. That would certainly save me a LOT of digging!

On your lack of sunlight for solar...have you thought about mounting the solar panel where there is sufficient sunlight and running the correct size wire to your gate ...? If it is a shorter distance than running electric it might be worth considering...just a thought.

 

[Soundguy]

On your lack of sunlight for solar...have you thought about mounting the solar panel where there is sufficient sunlight and running the correct size wire to your gate ...? If it is a shorter distance than running electric it might be worth considering...just a thought.

i agree. many people in the woods that do satalite tv like dish / direct mount the dish on poles.. etc. same could be done with t he solar panel.

panels are so low wattage that wire size won't be an issue..

rodding under the driveway via water is easy too...

 

[Coyote machine]

For digging in hard rocky soil consider this, IF you have a TLB. It is a ripper tooth for breaking tree roots from cut tree stumps, etc. Though not inexpensive, it serves many purposes if you have a need for digging and laying trenches, etc. I have one with the serrated edges, which they also make on request. It works great. Backhoe Ripper Tooth

 

[MotorSeven]

I will be putting in a solar gate soon. 100% agree with Jim that 12' is too small.....go 16' minimum. We have had a couple of trespassers, but the real issue is "pop-ins"......my wife and I really hate the pop-ins:

The pop In - YouTube

 

[brin]

I will be putting in a solar gate soon. 100% agree with Jim that 12' is too small.....go 16' minimum. We have had a couple of trespassers, but the real issue is "pop-ins"......my wife and I really hate the pop-ins:

The pop In - YouTube

LOL - ever notice pop ins generally don't know how to pop out...Ugggg !

 

[TnAndy]

Built mine 25 years back. Sunk a couple of 8" x 10' I beams from the scrap yard in about 4yds of concrete on each side, then laid the field stone around them. Welded some square tubing on the I beam, which holds the gate hinges ( 3 points on each ). Built the gates out of square tubing and some flat bar for the curved part. Gates are 10' wide, each. You can get by with a single 12' gate IF your entry and driveway are STRAIGHT.....mine aren't, and sometimes 20' is a tight fit with a long trailer. Recently had a tractor/trailer come deliver something, and he had a 48' trailer.....barely made it !


Used Genie brand linear actuator type openers at first.....complete pcs of junk, they don't even make them anymore. Any static electricity would pop the circuit boards in them at $75/ea.

Later went with a pair of OSCO brand openers ....GREAT opener....100% mechanical switching, not an integrated circuit on it. It's the "arm" type opener, using a 1/2hp motor and gear reduction box. Can't recommend them highly enough. Virtually no problems in 20 years.

For power, I ran a couple of #6 hots, 1 #6 neutral and a ground, a total of 900' , and it runs the gates with no problem + a security light on a motion detector. You CAN also run control wiring that far, all it takes is a couple #14, and some phone wire if you want a speaker. I didn't, but a buddy of mine just did over a longer distance than that. I used a subsoiler, then went back over it with a 'middle buster' plow to open it up more....I ran it all in PVC conduit just for protection, as it's only about 12" deep...but I ran down thru the woods where nothing ever disturbs it either. I also put a "pull box" ever couple hundred feet, turning a PVC 90 up, and into a PVC box, then back out to the next one.

As for getting under a drive, get a backhoe to come dig a hole on one side, then it can push a capped pc of 1-2" steel pipe under the driveway. Unscrew the cap, and you have an in place conduit. Water company does it all the time to put a meter on one side of a road where the supply line is on the other.

 

[tractchores]

Built mine 25 years back. Sunk a couple of 8" x 10' I beams from the scrap yard in about 4yds of concrete on each side, then laid the field stone around them. Welded some square tubing on the I beam, which holds the gate hinges ( 3 points on each ). Built the gates out of square tubing and some flat bar for the curved part. Gates are 10' wide, each. You can get by with a single 12' gate IF your entry and driveway are STRAIGHT.....mine aren't, and sometimes 20' is a tight fit with a long trailer. Recently had a tractor/trailer come deliver something, and he had a 48' trailer.....barely made it !


Used Genie brand linear actuator type openers at first.....complete pcs of junk, they don't even make them anymore. Any static electricity would pop the circuit boards in them at $75/ea.

Later went with a pair of OSCO brand openers ....GREAT opener....100% mechanical switching, not an integrated circuit on it. It's the "arm" type opener, using a 1/2hp motor and gear reduction box. Can't recommend them highly enough. Virtually no problems in 20 years.

For power, I ran a couple of #6 hots, 1 #6 neutral and a ground, a total of 900' , and it runs the gates with no problem + a security light on a motion detector. You CAN also run control wiring that far, all it takes is a couple #14, and some phone wire if you want a speaker. I didn't, but a buddy of mine just did over a longer distance than that. I used a subsoiler, then went back over it with a 'middle buster' plow to open it up more....I ran it all in PVC conduit just for protection, as it's only about 12" deep...but I ran down thru the woods where nothing ever disturbs it either. I also put a "pull box" ever couple hundred feet, turning a PVC 90 up, and into a PVC box, then back out to the next one.

As for getting under a drive, get a backhoe to come dig a hole on one side, then it can push a capped pc of 1-2" steel pipe under the driveway. Unscrew the cap, and you have an in place conduit. Water company does it all the time to put a meter on one side of a road where the supply line is on the other.

Thanks, great info and nice gate. I like the walls on either side and am after a similar style. On the width I should mention that this is on a straight section of road coming in, the road ends in my drive so there is no turn at all and at least 100' or more straight on either side of the gate, so turning won't be an issue. Anything that can't fit 12' wide on a straight away definitely isn't making it down the road (which does have turns and is 10' wide at places with big trees right up to the edge).

The opener info is good as well, I'll want to get a good brand and run big wire if I'm doing it from the house. With the subsoiler idea that may be an easier task than I thought as long as the town doesn't object permit wise. Unfortunately a remote solar panel won't buy me much (may save 100') as the property is mature forest until you get right to the house.

 

[cisco]

Seems many of us have faced this issue. If all you're trenching for is electrical stuff, a subsoiler will work, either with a store bought extension for feeding cable or homemade (which I used) of gently curved metal conduit mounted on the back of the subsoiler with U-clamps. Yeah, it'll be "fun" when you hit major rocks, and you may have to make multiple passes, each progressively deeper until getting to the level when you lay in the cable, but it'll work unless you hit an underground mountain - sturdy subsoiler, SLOW tractor speed, 4WD. Yeah, I know 18" may be code in your area, but......none of us will tell if you only go 12". Run EVERY type of cable you can imagine in the trench before covering it up, cause no way you want to be there again. So, positive/negative/ground lines of appropriate size (amp loss tables over distance are readily available on line - do you want the possibility of a gate or address poll light?), and then consider a phone line for intercom...and if putting in 1 place 2 instead "just in case" or use CAT 6 (sufficient small wires for just about anything - hey, you can get a video image of your visitors).