John deere loader specs.

[Dizno]

Did I mention the fact John Deere designs their own engine oil, hydraulic oil, and engine coolants to a very high specification? That's right, I didn't. Just another way John Deere shows they care.

Proven tractors, proven technology - year after year.

 

[GManBart]

You still don't get my point. When my John Deere 1020 comes to a grinding halt at ...say...12,000 hours which many of them get to, I will be able to:

-get an OEM engine kit from the same company that manufactured it
-will not have to bore it out because it has sleeves
-have it rebuilt many, many times

While you will have to:

-get your tractor rebuilt long before I do
-bring your engine to a machine shop to get bored out
-try to get your parts from FIAT because FORD no longer exists similar to many other tractor companies

Quality should NOT include performance. No different than a stock car might be able to win a race for a year while a well appointed working car could last years. The laws of metallurgy whereby heat treatments, and wear characteristics all have to come together. An example could be ratio of rear axle to front axle and front axle to bucket pivot point. It all has to make sense or the loader tractor is not balanced. This is the reason why I DISAGREE that specifications are the answer. You would buy a "will fit" loader, put it on your tractor because of specification only to have your front axle bust in half. What good is that?

You are smart not to compare to John Deere. The hard work and care John Deere dealerships have for customers for whom they deal with along with the humbleness they exude always is so amazing to see and experience.

See, you're suffering from the classic brand loyalty blindness which so often afflicts brand zealots. I'll try to break it down for you. You stated that a Deere would outlast a Kubota, due to a list of features like the kind of welds on the pistons. I pointed out that your argument is invalid because there are tractors without those features still running just fine after many, many decades, so we really don't know any actual service life comparison numbers....the old stuff hasn't needed those "improvements" to outlast most people.

You then asked how old my tractor was....I have several, and detailed my oldest machine. I wasn't comparing it to anything, just answering your question. You then attacked the 8N, comparing it to your 20 year newer, much larger 1020....for no reason.

If I was trying to compare roughly similar machines, I would have listed my Massey, which is the same basic size as yor 1020, but has more power, more 3pt lift, etc....simply a more capable machine.

Performance IS part of quality, whether you like it or not. When someone has a job to do, they don't ask "does this loader have nickel chrome plated pistons?", they ask "how much, and how high, can it lift?". When someone try's to defend something with inferior performance, the first thing they scream is "but it's higher quality". Hogwash, if it costs more, and performs worse, it isn't a higher quality product.

Deere cares for the almighty dollar, or they wouldn't be closing local dealerships left and right, forcing people to travel farther to get service, and support, from mega chains who don't care about you if you don't own a fleet of equipment.

Deere humble? Are you nuts? There are more threads about people being ignored and insulted at Deere dealerships than all other brands combined. How about when people repeatedly talk about going to a dealer to buy, that day, and not getting the time if day from the sakes people? Lots if threads like that ere, and in other forums. What about when people are looking to demo, or see a particular model, and the sakes people say "order one, and you can look at it"? The list goes on, but your blind loyalty to one brand keeps you from noticing those, I guess....

 

[DeereMann]

I have learned a lot about the other brands, thanks to you guys. I am not that heavy a user like many of you, so was not that concerned about sticking with Deere for my upgrade to a SCUT, the dealer is close (10 miles), and prices/services well. I guess I was kind of naive & shocked to read the comments here.

The biggest issue for me would have been the turnover at some brands, & distance to selling & servicing dealers. Maybe that doesn't matter so much now with the web?

I would have test-driven a Kubota & Kioti for sure.

Oh, well - I still have fun with my Deere - don't think I got ripped off too bad?

 

[GManBart]

I have learned a lot about the other brands, thanks to you guys.

Same here! Congrats on MOM!

For everybody else, I'm not suggesting Deere makes anything but a quality machine. It's just that saying they're going significantly outlast a Kubota is a big stretch.

 

[Dizno]

See, you're suffering from the classic brand loyalty blindness which so often afflicts brand zealots. I'll try to break it down for you. You stated that a Deere would outlast a Kubota, due to a list of features like the kind of welds on the pistons. I pointed out that your argument is invalid because there are tractors without those features still running just fine after many, many decades, so we really don't know any actual service life comparison numbers....the old stuff hasn't needed those "improvements" to outlast most people.

You then asked how old my tractor was....I have several, and detailed my oldest machine. I wasn't comparing it to anything, just answering your question. You then attacked the 8N, comparing it to your 20 year newer, much larger 1020....for no reason.

If I was trying to compare roughly similar machines, I would have listed my Massey, which is the same basic size as yor 1020, but has more power, more 3pt lift, etc....simply a more capable machine.

Performance IS part of quality, whether you like it or not. When someone has a job to do, they don't ask "does this loader have nickel chrome plated pistons?", they ask "how much, and how high, can it lift?". When someone try's to defend something with inferior performance, the first thing they scream is "but it's higher quality". Hogwash, if it costs more, and performs worse, it isn't a higher quality product.

Deere cares for the almighty dollar, or they wouldn't be closing local dealerships left and right, forcing people to travel farther to get service, and support, from mega chains who don't care about you if you don't own a fleet of equipment.

Deere humble? Are you nuts? There are more threads about people being ignored and insulted at Deere dealerships than all other brands combined. How about when people repeatedly talk about going to a dealer to buy, that day, and not getting the time if day from the sakes people? Lots if threads like that ere, and in other forums. What about when people are looking to demo, or see a particular model, and the sakes people say "order one, and you can look at it"? The list goes on, but your blind loyalty to one brand keeps you from noticing those, I guess....

First of all, let me say sorry if I don't have your same opinion. And I am not nuts - I am well educated both with years of operating tractors (including many hours driving a Massey Ferguson 165) and was schooled in well respected agricultural programs - I have the degrees to prove it - I worked hard to earn them and have the common sense to know there is much for me to learn as well as the capacity to discern a good tractor from a poorer one. Differing from some, if I'm allowed an opinion, is I do not believe they were engineered to the same quality. The problem is, we don't totally agree what quality is - the only example you cite is a 3 pt hitch capacity example.

Second, I am trying to have a rational uplifting debate. If I am a "brand zealot" and am comparing a 1020 to an 8N which truly is unfair as this was positioned as a tractor that most could afford and did have some neat features such as a 3 pt hitch and was a much older design, why is it fair to compare a Massey 241 which is from year 2000-2001 according to TractorData as I am not familiar with it while the 1020 is from 1965-1973? Almost 30 years newer. I also went to the ratings on the 241 on this website and...there were none and so I won't place an opinion on something I don't know about. What I do know is my 1020 has four reverse gears, 8 speeds forward, good hydraulic flow at 10 gpm closed centre hydraulics, wet brakes, and sleeves in the engine so it can be rebuilt cost effectively after having a long service life if properly maintained with quality John Deere oils and filters. I guarantee your 241 will missing some of these attributes. Example - for loader work a mix of decent reverse speeds will result in less clutch wear or more productivity - perhaps both. Perhaps I am wrong - but I suspect not - my humblest apologies if I am.

Saying people are more frequently insulted by Deere people than all the other brands combined is personal. I won't respond to that. You said it. As for the direction of John Deere and you angst towards this - also has little to do with the product - that is an opinion you possess. I won't respond to that.

What I can say - I never talked about welds on any pistons. I talked facts on features and why they are good value. We could talk all day long about the value of telematics and electronic engine-transmission communications, guidance products such as machine sync all of which John Deere has invested a lot of money to make people's tractors better and more efficient. Many brands do not have this and because some may not value this at all - doesn't mean others are wrong because they purchase it from a company that sells what people in general want in order to earn their daily bread.

Therefore, I am sorry if I am passionate with my satisfaction for my John Deere tractors. I polish and cherish them - they drive like silk and the pleasant ergonomics, predictable performance, and steadfast reliability make me a happy owner. I try to be factual where possible.

And yes, when I go to a friendly John Deere dealer and I politely ask him why simple things like why John Deere oil is so good, they do serve me in a friendly manner and explain to me, for example, that Hy-guard hydraulic oil was designed already in the 1960s to make farmers lives better and has the specification sheet to show why it is quality as opposed to rhetoric, I am a happy, simple person. I find contentment in this. Although there are sometimes the odd bad apple in a bushel basket, I don't have much problem at all dealing with friendly John Deere dealers - perhaps it is my naturally sunny disposition that is attractive, or perhaps some others may not share these attributes.

Goodnight,

Dizno

 

[Dizno]

I have learned a lot about the other brands, thanks to you guys. I am not that heavy a user like many of you, so was not that concerned about sticking with Deere for my upgrade to a SCUT, the dealer is close (10 miles), and prices/services well. I guess I was kind of naive & shocked to read the comments here.

The biggest issue for me would have been the turnover at some brands, & distance to selling & servicing dealers. Maybe that doesn't matter so much now with the web?

I would have test-driven a Kubota & Kioti for sure.

Oh, well - I still have fun with my Deere - don't think I got ripped off too bad?

Excellent choice - you will enjoy a fantastic machine with Auto-connect, a leading edge seat for ride quality, and one of the nicest packages in the industry. You purchased an awesome tractor - if I could afford one, I'd buy one. Why I purchased a 455 John Deere - can't swing the 1026R yet. Give me a few more years!

 

[murphy1244]

I don't think he could of bought a Kubota with his handle being DeereMann.

 

[TomSeller]

I will say that, particularly on larger tractors, Deere has insight into the design that is not present in any other brand. Deere does things in my community that helps the farmer's future such as donating a building and equipment to the local college. I can guarantee there is no Kubota building there, no Mahindra, no LS, no Massey buildings there. Just the John Deere building, and that Green paint. I have other brands besides Deere, but I have to admit that when it is harvest time, it is Deere time. Go Deere.

 

[GManBart]

First of all, let me say sorry if I don't have your same opinion.


What I can say - I never talked about welds on any pistons. I talked facts on features and why they are good value.

Yes, if you shared my opinion, it would mean you being objective.

Sorry, I meant welds on cylinders, not pistons.

 

[adventure bob]

All I can say is wow. I'm concerned that a tractor company is worried about oil. That's like Mercedes making Mercedes oil (they don't by the way, they recommend high end synthetics from OIL companies). With enough time and money I bet JD could get pretty good at it, but I think Id rather have oil experts worry about oil, and my tractor company worry about my tractor.
While I will conceded that kids tend to dream in JD Green; I highly doubt any kid ever said "when I grow up I want an Iseki." ****, I wanted a JD, but the price per features made me go orange.
IMHO, most folks wont use their tractors hard enough to notice the difference between tractors.
Those who do are called commercial farmers and they wouldn't buy the tractors were using anyways.
So for some lighthearted perspective, my friend with a commercial farm in Montana laughs at me and says "Yeah the L4060 garden tractor is real nice but, real tractors start at 100HP."

 

[sd455dan]

I will say that, particularly on larger tractors, Deere has insight into the design that is not present in any other brand. Deere does things in my community that helps the farmer's future such as donating a building and equipment to the local college. I can guarantee there is no Kubota building there, no Mahindra, no LS, no Massey buildings there. Just the John Deere building, and that Green paint. I have other brands besides Deere, but I have to admit that when it is harvest time, it is Deere time. Go Deere.

Steiger designed and built some of the most respected large machines, also 8Ns do have replaceable liners.... so they Can be rebuilt indefinitely...

 

[TomSeller]

"Yeah the L4060 garden tractor is real nice but, real tractors start at 100HP."

He has a point there

 

[mikehaugen]

I will say this, I like John Deere and will probably stick with them because the dealers are plentiful in my area and they are proven. Kubota is a distant second as far as popularity in my area with all others nearly non-existent (for cuts anyway, ag tractors are a whole different story, but still with jd being the leader). I won't say that other brands don't have their merits though. As far as having more stories about people being ignored by the dealers it may be a matter of percentages. As said there are many more Deere dealers in my area than anything else, so if 1 in 5 dealers from any brand is an ***hole, there will naturally be more bad Deere dealers. Another thing to remember is that R&D costs money, and must be absorbed into the sales of tractors, I haven't paid too much attention, but would guess that JD puts more money into r&d than a lot of other brands. Can't speak of any brands in particular, but some just use processes/ designs that are already proven- of course they are going to be able to make them cheaper. Again, that last statement has a fair amount of assumption in it (since I am not "up" on all the new tractors), but over the years Deere has had a lot of innovations and those don't come for free. If Deere was simply making more profit on their equipment without spending more money on research and customer service, they should be the best company in the world to invest in as their stock prices would be constantly soaring in relation to others.

As far as donating the building and painting it green, we all know what that was about. It was a marketing strategy to get young budding agriculturists (is that a word?) thinking green. Planting the seed so to speak. I doubt it was out of the kindness of their hearts. The same reason Miller donates welders to schools and Autodesk makes their software cheaper to students, they want them to get used to their product to make them more likely to buy it later in life.

I am no die-hard JD guy that thinks anyone that drives anything else is a lesser person, or that other brands' tractors are a waste of money, but I do understand the higher costs to an extent.

 

[TomSeller]

.
As far as donating the building and painting it green, we all know what that was about. It was a marketing strategy to get young budding agriculturists (is that a word?) thinking green. Planting the seed so to speak. I doubt it was out of the kindness of their hearts. The same reason Miller donates welders to schools and Autodesk makes their software cheaper to students, they want them to get used to their product to make them more likely to buy it later in life.
.

LOL. The building isn't green, just the John Deeres parked in and around it. Yes, I am sure it was to perpetuate the green brand, and all colors could have made the donations over the years. The point is that none did except Deere. I acknowledge that other brands make excellent tractors, but I also acknowledge that when it comes to big boy tractors, Deere's competitors fall off the trail fast.

 

[Dizno]

Steiger designed and built some of the most respected large machines, also 8Ns do have replaceable liners.... so they Can be rebuilt indefinitely...

Looks to me they have sleeves if you bore one out and then pound in a dry sleeve unlike a wet sleeve engine. You still need to machine the bore out.

Steiger did build respectable machines - no doubt about it. Key word being "used to". They sold out to CaseIH years ago. People with longer grey beards bought new lime green Steigers in their day.

 

[murphy1244]

My Massey has a Perkins that has liners that can be pushed out and replaced and its a 1967 another long gray beard.

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

I have respect for Deere. They make pretty good equipment and tractors. We have an 850 on our farm that is 33 years old and just keeps on ticking. When I was in the decision-making process of buying another tractor this year, I had quickly narrowed it down to JD and Massey Ferguson. At first, I was leaning toward either a 3000 Twenty series or a 4000 Twenty series Deere, but soon realized that the 3000s were not enough tractor. Then it became a question of either 4120 Twenty Deere or 1643 or 1648 Massey. While any of the three would have been excellent choices for our farm, price factored heavily into it. I ended up choosing the 1643 because it was $4,000 less than the 1648 and the 4120, and it wasn't less of a tractor than we needed.

Sure, I would have liked to get the JD with its 400cx loader (very nice), but in the end I got the tractor that fit our farm and my wallet best. After all the research I put into the decision, I'm convinced that the Massey Ferguson 1600 series tractors are among the best compact tractors available, equal to or better than JD, and those two brands put more into R&D than most other brands combined.

 

[sd455dan]

My Massey has a Perkins that has liners that can be pushed out and replaced and its a 1967 another long gray beard.

totally agree, many Masseys can be rebuilt indefinitely and they are also long lived...

Seen some Masseys with over 12,000 hours still running strong even my 1967 3000 Ford (Ford/Perkins) whos hourmeter quit at 3960 ? in the mid/ late 1970's has to be close to 9000 hours by now .

Many other brands that are very long lived... regardless of the fact that they were not designed or built by JD...

 

[GManBart]

Looks to me they have sleeves if you bore one out and then pound in a dry sleeve unlike a wet sleeve engine. You still need to machine the bore out.

Wrong....the sleeves can be purchased with matching pistons and rings that require zero machine shop work. Any average home mechanic can re-sleeve an 8N.

http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/9N-Engine-Overhaul-Part1.pdf

 

[GManBart]

I will say that, particularly on larger tractors, Deere has insight into the design that is not present in any other brand. Deere does things in my community that helps the farmer's future such as donating a building and equipment to the local college. I can guarantee there is no Kubota building there, no Mahindra, no LS, no Massey buildings there. Just the John Deere building, and that Green paint. I have other brands besides Deere, but I have to admit that when it is harvest time, it is Deere time. Go Deere.

From the tractor news section of the home page here....took a minute or two to find all these. Kioti, Mahindra, and Massey are obviously doing similar things. Maybe not in your town, but that really shouldn't be the standard.

Mahindra Supports Three New Nashville Charities - TractorByNet.com

Mahindra Max Tractor Donated to Nashville Mayor - TractorByNet.com

Kioti Tractor Fights Breast Cancer with Fundraiser - TractorByNet.com

AGCO Donates Tractor to Piedmont Conservancy - TractorByNet.com

Kioti Pink Tractor for Breast Cancer Awareness - TractorByNet.com

Mahindra Donates Tractor to OSUIT University - TractorByNet.com

Mahindra & Operation Finally Home Surprise Vet - TractorByNet.com