50 hour Hydro Oil for the non believers

[grm61]

I did my 50 hour service a while back.
I poured my old hydro oil into the buckets the new oil came in, they then sat in my shed for two weeks before I took them to dump at the recyclers.

There has been alot of discussion on whether or not to do the hydro at 50 hrs, here is a pic of each bucket bottom after a couple weeks of sitting before being emptied, this is what had settled to the bottom.

I would say this represents about a third of what was still suspended in the oil, as you could still stir it with your finger and see metalic tracers.

The floaty stuff got mostly poured out when I emptied the buckets, there were pieces as big as a dime.

 

[Coyote machine]

I can't discern what you're showing us from the pics. What you're showing is what was drained out of the sump, or filters or both? Since it came out of the tractor it would seem it was not going to the filters, and *stayed in the bottom of the sump?
*That is, if the contents of the filters are not included in your bucket mix.

 

[murphy1244]

If it feels good do it.

 

[ritcheyvs]

When I did my 400 hr hydro oil change there was a great deal of metal filings stuck to the magnets on the two drain plugs and the magnet inside the hydro filter. Plus there was enough silt (like in your photos) that I felt that changing the oil was a good move (although several folks here said it as not necessary). I have a DK45S where the planetary final drives don't have/need drain plugs, just the two large plugs on the tractor center line. Those big magnets did make it hard to get the threads started when I re installed the plugs (probably the most frustrating part of the job). One tip I should have offered is to put a big piece of cardboard under the tractor to make it easy for you to to slide in and out and around.

 

[grm61]

I can't discern what you're showing us from the pics. What you're showing is what was drained out of the sump, or filters or both? Since it came out of the tractor it would seem it was not going to the filters, and *stayed in the bottom of the sump?
*That is, if the contents of the filters are not included in your bucket mix.

That is what was drained out of the tractor sump and rear final drives.
I had ran the tractor around for a while right before I drained the oil to get things stirred up.
The oil from the filters went in my automotive drain pan and into my engine oil waste jug.
The filters were discarded, I did not cut them open.

 

[murphy1244]

Drain again after 100 hours and you will get the same silt stuff again.

 

[grm61]

If it feels good do it.

I think that's why I have one eye that looks off to the side:laughing:

 

[CJONE]

When I did my 400 hr hydro oil change there was a great deal of metal filings stuck to the magnets on the two drain plugs and the magnet inside the hydro filter. Plus there was enough silt (like in your photos) that I felt that changing the oil was a good move (although several folks here said it as not necessary). I have a DK45S where the planetary final drives don't have/need drain plugs, just the two large plugs on the tractor center line. Those big magnets did make it hard to get the threads started when I re installed the plugs (probably the most frustrating part of the job). One tip I should have offered is to put a big piece of cardboard under the tractor to make it easy for you to to slide in and out and around.

Did you do a Hyd oil change at 50 Hours?

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I pulled the strainer on my BX25 at 50 HRs and found the same kind of stuff, tablespoon full. Cut the filter open and found the same. So: I changed the fluid after getting the HST back up to operating temp. Found more stuff. Another new filter. I work my tractor hard for its size (1000 hrs/3 years) so I now change lube, HST fluid, and filters every 200 Hrs. I seem to have gotten all that stuff out as I have found no more. I also had a problem with black gunk in the fuel filter for about 3 changes, that has cleared up now also. I want mine to last for awhile so fluids and filters are cheap insurance especially as I get the fleet discount at NAPA (30-50%).

ron

 

[CalG]

I did my 50 hour service a while back.
I poured my old hydro oil into the buckets the new oil came in, they then sat in my shed for two weeks before I took them to dump at the recyclers.

There has been alot of discussion on whether or not to do the hydro at 50 hrs, here is a pic of each bucket bottom after a couple weeks of sitting before being emptied, this is what had settled to the bottom.

I would say this represents about a third of what was still suspended in the oil, as you could still stir it with your finger and see metalic tracers.

The floaty stuff got mostly poured out when I emptied the buckets, there were pieces as big as a dime.

View attachment 362076View attachment 362077

How many hours do you feel you have added to the life of your equipment.

And as an unbeliever (based on the provided example. Which failure have you avoided?

I have a tractor that was made in 1950 and has exactly TWO fluid changes in it's life span and the last was about 15 years ago.

engine oil more regularly ;-)
IT's still a work horse!

 

[ritcheyvs]

Did you do a Hyd oil change at 50 Hours?

I bought it used (with maybe 275 hours) through the original selling dealer. The first owner had fallen on hard times. This dealer said he (the dealer) did the 50-hour service (and all other scheduled service up to 275 hours).

 

[Tractor Seabee]

How many hours do you feel you have added to the life of your equipment.

And as an unbeliever (based on the provided example. Which failure have you avoided?

I have a tractor that was made in 1950 and has exactly TWO fluid changes in it's life span and the last was about 15 years ago.

engine oil more regularly ;-)
IT's still a work horse!

1950 tractors ,or any other machinery for that matter, was manufactured with a entirely different set of standards and did not have the tight tolerances we find in the new small engines with higher HP to mass ratios, HSTs, and all that stuff. They ran 50W crankcase oil and 120W lube oil in them due to the loose tolerances. Old style poured Babbitt bearings took a lot of abuse compared to thin sleeve inserts (or no inserts) and smaller everything. You have to have a chin fall to lift your 20 HP engine, I can lift mine with my arms. The old 20 HP engine had 5 gallons of lube oil, today's have less than 1 gallon My BX 25 has only 3 gallons of HYD fluid for the whole HST and the HYD syatem.

Comparing your tractor to our newer ones is like comparing an abacus to a computer.

Grit in lubricants is an anathema to today's machinery.

Oh! for the good ole days. It probably costs you 5 times as much to replace all your fluids as it does in today's tractor. I will never know what I avoided if I never have a failure; because I kept every thing clean.

Ron

 

[CJONE]

How many hours do you feel you have added to the life of your equipment.

And as an unbeliever (based on the provided example. Which failure have you avoided?

I have a tractor that was made in 1950 and has exactly TWO fluid changes in it's life span and the last was about 15 years ago.

engine oil more regularly ;-)
IT's still a work horse!

Your 1950 tractor has a hydrostat does it?
He might not be able to provide you with a example but I can. I build hydrostatic systems for top drives. 1 customer could not even get 1 year out of hydrostat. After finally convincing them to install high pressure filters and to change and filter the NEW oil every year. They now get anywhere from 4 to 5 Years out of their systems. And they run 24 7. If anyone is a non believer after that they are more than welcome to stop by my shop and I will show them multiple rotating groups that have less than 2000 hours that are junk from dirty old fluid. A hydrostat will NOT tolerate dirt. CJ

 

[Looking4new]

Thanks CJONE

 

[paulharvey]

Not to really argue with what the manufacters says but I've seen hydraulic equipment that recommends a 2000 hour change. I really wonder if the light tractor makes really turn out a product so bad that you need to change at 50 hours. Construction equipment can easily rack up 30-50 hours per week all the time, and mine equipment can run 20+ hours per day. None of these get a 50 or 250 hour drain. Maybe at 6 months or 1000 hours.

 

[murphy1244]

My Ventrac is a 2000 hour before changing the Fluid.

 

[grm61]

How many hours do you feel you have added to the life of your equipment.

And as an unbeliever (based on the provided example. Which failure have you avoided?

I have a tractor that was made in 1950 and has exactly TWO fluid changes in it's life span and the last was about 15 years ago.
engine oil more regularly ;-)
IT's still a work horse!

IT's still a work horse!

So I should not take care of it?
I paid good money for this tractor, and will more than likely be the only tractor I ever buy in my lifetime.
So yes I choose to do what the manufacture says to do and get the metal and crud out of it.

I have a tractor that was made in 1950 and has exactly TWO fluid changes in it's life span and the last was about 15 years ago.

Another reason I bought a new tractor.

 

[murphy1244]

So yes I choose to do what the manufacture says to do and get the metal and crud out of it??

Therein lies the problem. Some owners manuals say to change but the Service manual and my dealer say wait till 400 hours.
That's why I say if it feels good do it.

 

[CalG]

So yes I choose to do what the manufacture says to do and get the metal and crud out of it??

Therein lies the problem. Some owners manuals say to change but the Service manual and my dealer say wait till 400 hours.
That's why I say if it feels good do it.

Those are termed "recreational fluid changes" It's a "manly past time", that is 99% feel good.

The log splitter in the shed has a "pressure drop" guage (so does the Hurlimann) that is placed in circuit to provide information to COMBAT the wasteful fluid changes that come from the "feel good psyche".

I do endorse clean fluids. but based on causality, not on emotion.
Take care of your equipment, but be aware of the facts. (send a sample out for analysis for example) Place a magnet somewhere in the sump!


Would you not expect the fluid filter to do it's job? That is my first line of prevention!

As a note, automotive automatic transmissions sometimes carry "lifetime" fluids. Though the transmission makers, like ZF, will tell you 30,000 miles is quite enough between changes. Let's do the math. 30,000 miles at average of 30 mph..(typical automotive use) that is 1000 hours! And an auto box is not so much different than a hydrostatic drive.

Just a perspective, I'm not trying to change anyones ways of doing things.

 

[the old grind]

IMO, the initial factory 'fill' is best considered a rinse. Modern CUTs are globally sourced & we don't know the factory conditions everywhere they & their parts/assemblies come from. One only hopes to get the s__ out sooner than later since everything has been 'opened' by assemblers vs say meticulous engine or transmission rebuilders. ("change oil after 50 mi to remove rag lint, etc" .. )

I'm coming up on the 50 hr milestone/chore with my new guy and will consider the $$ spent as my 'cheap insurance' for now. Heck, if I can afford the full shot once I may even do it again someday.