DK50SE vs NX5510 vs NX6010 All are HST with Cab, Thoughts?

[Coyote machine]

Who said a diesel takes 20 minutes to come to operating temp? 'Clear' fuel? I suppose you're referring to un-gelled fuel, with no water or gelled paraffin in it. Yes, that is essential in extreme cold temperatures, especially if it's stored in those conditions at night. How do you plan to store your tractor?

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Storing? I'll be thrilled if the first year it is stored on a concrete slab, amazed if the slab has 10 foot walls and a roof, flabbergasted if there is electricity, and dumbfounded if there is heat and running water.

Anyway, my plan is to build a humble garage first, then clear the first lot for a home. Low temps in my area of Minnesota don't get much colder than -30°F but below 0°F is commonplace during winter.

 

[grm61]

Not a whole lot of experience on diesels. As a former auto-mechanic I've worked on diesels insofar as they needed to be worked on (mostly K-Jetronic systems) but I worked on many more gasser vehicles. Anyway, no matter the type of small engine, it should not take twenty minutes to warm-up. The service manager and I discussed the direct injectors need to have clear fuel running through them and so I'll get a fuel-line heater as well.

Glad you got it all figured out...:laughing:

 

[SwingOak]

The DK50 I have starts a little rough when it's cold, and by cold I mean below 10 or so. So I had a block heater put in. Much better, and that was all it needed. I use on-road diesel in it so where I live in central Wisconsin fuel is always winterized fuel, so that means there are plenty of anti-gel agents in there already. Off-road diesel might be a different story and might well need a fuel line heater, but it's a lot cheaper to just use winterized on-road diesel.

 

[Hard Knocks]

Thanks, you just informed me that Kioti's need higher temperature thermostats as I noticed the NX6010 i tried out to day never really showed that it was warmed up.

Pretty common to need to move to warmer T-stat up here in the north in order to warm up properly.

Kioti or any other diesel CUT do not need warmer thermostats. A diesel needs to work in the cold to maintain operating temperature. Just the fan moving cold air across the engine keeps it chilled if its not under load. A clutch fan would really help but I have never one on any CUT. A higher temp thermostat will do nothing to make it warm up faster in the cold but it will make it run too hot in the summer. Too much heat in an engine is bad! It will also void your warranty.

As others have said. Warm up the engine with the heater off. When you are ready to work the tractor turn the heat on. Not a problem.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Kioti or any other diesel CUT do not need warmer thermostats. A diesel needs to work in the cold to maintain operating temperature. Just the fan moving cold air across the engine keeps it chilled if its not under load. A clutch fan would really help but I have never one on any CUT. A higher temp thermostat will do nothing to make it warm up faster in the cold but it will make it run too hot in the summer. Too much heat in an engine is bad! It will also void your warranty.

As others have said. Warm up the engine with the heater off. When you are ready to work the tractor turn the heat on. Not a problem.

A warmer T-stat does not restrict flow once opened. A warmer T-stat begins to open at a higher temperature. As an example an engine builds up some heat, enough to cause the T-stat to begin to open, and then once the T-stat starts to open, the engine is stuck at that initial opening temperature until the entire cooling system gets enough heat into to open up the T-stat further. A warmer T-stat does not begin opening up until a warmer temperature, but once the T-stat begins opening, the engine is stuck at that temperature until the rest of the coolant warms up beyond the T-stat's initial opening temperature. An engine that takes 20 minutes to come up to temperature has too much coolant flow. Restricting the coolant flow with a higher temperature T-stat will shorten to warm-up time.

An important point from the pushback: A warmer T-stat does not restrict coolant flow of a warmed up engine. Electric coolant fans tend to kick on from 220°F to 235°F (remember pressurized coolant systems have a higher boiling point) and then draw engine temps down to 180°F to 205°F before kicking off. Since the little three cylinder in the NX6010 uses a thermal fan clutch (tfc), a tfc can be expected to kick on around 170°F ambient radiator temps, which are a good 30°F cooler than the actual coolant temperature. A higher T-stat can increase the cycling of an electric cooling fan but is unlikely to change the tfc performance that much. Notwithstanding, since we do not want to increase coolant fan cycling, a good tech will, if not already known, measure the actual temps of the T-stat opening and the engine cooling fan kicking clutch on and off and, if needed, select a T-stat with a higher temperature but one that is below the temperature the cooling fan kicks on. If the engine is warming up at or above 165°F (ish) and just reading low on the meter or gauge on the dash, then I would not horse around swapping T-stats.

In so far as the heater goes, in this class I'm under the impression since I did not notice any heater lines (not that I was really looking) that these tractors use a heating element, not engine coolant to heat the cabs. A heating element should not care what temperature the engine is at but will take awhile to come up to temperature because of low ambient air temperature, and relatively low wattage available from the alternator at idle.

 

[k0ua]

I can tell you this much, they use engine coolant to heat the cabs.

 

[Hard Knocks]

A warmer T-stat does not restrict flow once opened. A warmer T-stat begins to open at a higher temperature. As an example an engine builds up some heat, enough to cause the T-stat to begin to open, and then once the T-stat starts to open, the engine is stuck at that initial opening temperature until the entire cooling system gets enough heat into to open up the T-stat further. A warmer T-stat does not begin opening up until a warmer temperature, but once the T-stat begins opening, the engine is stuck at that temperature until the rest of the coolant warms up beyond the T-stat's initial opening temperature. An engine that takes 20 minutes to come up to temperature has too much coolant flow. Restricting the coolant flow with a higher temperature T-stat will shorten to warm-up time.

An important point from the pushback: A warmer T-stat does not restrict coolant flow of a warmed up engine. Electric coolant fans tend to kick on from 220°F to 235°F (remember pressurized coolant systems have a higher boiling point) and then draw engine temps down to 180°F to 205°F before kicking off. Since the little three cylinder in the NX6010 uses a thermal fan clutch (tfc), a tfc can be expected to kick on around 170°F ambient radiator temps, which are a good 30°F cooler than the actual coolant temperature. A higher T-stat can increase the cycling of an electric cooling fan but is unlikely to change the tfc performance that much. Notwithstanding, since we do not want to increase coolant fan cycling, a good tech will, if not already known, measure the actual temps of the T-stat opening and the engine cooling fan kicking clutch on and off and, if needed, select a T-stat with a higher temperature but one that is below the temperature the cooling fan kicks on. If the engine is warming up at or above 165°F (ish) and just reading low on the meter or gauge on the dash, then I would not horse around swapping T-stats.

In so far as the heater goes, in this class I'm under the impression since I did not notice any heater lines (not that I was really looking) that these tractors use a heating element, not engine coolant to heat the cabs. A heating element should not care what temperature the engine is at but will take awhile to come up to temperature because of low ambient air temperature, and relatively low wattage available from the alternator at idle.

<img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=369156"/>

Once opened is correct. A warmer thermostat raises the operating temperature of the engine. The new minimum is now the new thermostat rating. All Kioti tractors have two white dots on the temp gauge. The operating temp is always at this point. It is engineered this way. Especially for a tier IV engine. It the temperature goes above this point something is wrong. As I said before, heat kills engines. Don't mess with the engineered operating temp.

The cab is heated by coolant. No electric heat. This is a non issue. Once the tractor starts working the temp comes up and you take your coat off.

 

[grm61]

In so far as the heater goes, in this class I'm under the impression since I did not notice any heater lines (not that I was really looking) that these tractors use a heating element, not engine coolant to heat the cabs. A heating element should not care what temperature the engine is at but will take awhile to come up to temperature because of low ambient air temperature, and relatively low wattage available from the alternator at idle.

The heater core and all the goodies are in the roof, the lines run inside the cab frame/Rops to the heater core, and temp control/water valve in the roof.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Heater core in the roof? Next time I pop a hood, I'll look for that.

Thanks!