Tier 4

[coobie]

The radio, rear wiper, rearview mirror, and rear remotes are now optional. The driving lights (they call them safety lights I think) and front wiper are standard. Luckily, the prices are pretty reasonable on the optional stuff....$250 for the radio, under $300 per rear remote, $150 for the rear wiper (I forgot to ask about the rearview mirror). Generally speaking, it's around $750 to make an NX compare to how the DK models came standard.

Thanks,I was curious.

 

[grm61]

The new tier 4 tractors, are very nice, and I am sure they would be pleasurable to use, but you are going to have to be OK with hauling it to the dealer and spending the money when things go south, while the dealer throws parts at it..oh this was wrong, oh that was wrong, all the while charging you, until they get lucky and throw the right $art at it.

With the potential for things to go wrong, I kind of equate owning one tier 4 unit, to owning four or five DK 45s and running them all at the same time, this is just my opinion, your mileage may vary

Do you think your local tractor dealer that has been selling tier 3 machines is going to have a GOOD tech on hand to diagnose and repair these modern, electronic emission systems?
A code will often point you in the right direction but could be 3 or four different component$ or...could be grounds, bad wire in the wiring harne$$ SOMEWHERE, resistance in a plug or wire, broken or chewed wire....
These new tier 4 rigs have got alot of wiring, and it all has to be good for all this electronical wizardry to work right...or even correctly diagnose, time is money on both ends.

I'm getting older, to me less is more, my DK 45 motor rattles a little bit, but its pretty quite in the Cab

You guys that are brave enough to put your nuts on the stump good luck to ya:thumbsup:

So to the OP ....Tier3=simple, mostly mechanical controls and injection.........Tier 4=complex elecronics, high pressure common rail electronic injection,and emmison controls, you decide what is best for you

 

[GManBart]

The new tier 4 tractors, are very nice, and I am sure they would be pleasurable to use, but you are going to have to be OK with hauling it to the dealer and spending the money when things go south, while the dealer throws parts at it..oh this was wrong, oh that was wrong, all the while charging you, until they get lucky and throw the right $art at it.

With the potential for things to go wrong, I kind of equate owning one tier 4 unit, to owning four or five DK 45s and running them all at the same time, this is just my opinion, your mileage may vary

Do you think your local tractor dealer that has been selling tier 3 machines is going to have a GOOD tech on hand to diagnose and repair these modern, electronic emission systems?
A code will often point you in the right direction but could be 3 or four different component$ or...could be grounds, bad wire in the wiring harne$$ SOMEWHERE, resistance in a plug or wire, broken or chewed wire....
These new tier 4 rigs have got alot of wiring, and it all has to be good for all this electronical wizardry to work right...or even correctly diagnose, time is money on both ends.

I'm getting older, to me less is more, my DK 45 motor rattles a little bit, but its pretty quite in the Cab

You guys that are brave enough to put your nuts on the stump good luck to ya:thumbsup:

So to the OP ....Tier3=simple, mostly mechanical controls and injection.........Tier 4=complex elecronics, high pressure common rail electronic injection,and emmison controls, you decide what is best for you

Lots of assumptions, and flat out guesses in that statement (aside from the opinions, of course).

Some of those same dealers also sell and service larger machines that have had Tier IV equipment on them for years now, so the learning curve shouldn't be too steep.

This isn't really new technology, it's just new for this small of a machine. SCUT/CUT/Utility tractors are almost certainly a less demanding application compared some of the larger machines that have had Tier IV stuff on them for a long time now.

I guess we'll all see what happens, but the manufacturers have had years to be ready for this, and they got lots of experience and practice implementing the changes on the larger machines, so there's a good chance it will be a non-event.

 

[nova3930]

If you're concerned about maintenace at the dealer with the introduction of new tech, you should be concerned with whether or not the manufacturer is providing good service manuals to the dealers. A dealer with techs who have good mechanical know how coupled with a good service manual should be able to handle anything without much problem. If you're missing one of those two components you're going to have issues though...

 

[grm61]

Lots of assumptions, and flat out guesses in that statement (aside from the opinions, of course).

Some of those same dealers also sell and service larger machines that have had Tier IV equipment on them for years now, so the learning curve shouldn't be too steep.

This isn't really new technology, it's just new for this small of a machine. SCUT/CUT/Utility tractors are almost certainly a less demanding application compared some of the larger machines that have had Tier IV stuff on them for a long time now.

I guess we'll all see what happens, but the manufacturers have had years to be ready for this, and they got lots of experience and practice implementing the changes on the larger machines, so there's a good chance it will be a non-event.

My opinions are based largely on what I have seen on the trucks at work.
I'm a driver, Yes I am assuming that the systems on the tractors are going to be similar, smaller, 3 or 4 cyl instead of six and smaller displacement, the earlier trucks that they own don't use urea, the later ones do.
They have 48 Peterbuilts from 2007 to 2014, every one of them, including the 2014s have had issues of one sort or another, We have a sharp young guy in their now that can work on them, and he is good, the other 4 guys do the nuts and bolts stuff.

Before they hired this sharp young guy, almost every truck we had was de=rated with a CEL on, or getting the red light, and bells of death shutting down all the time.

This kid has got them all running well now, but not without cost, wiring harnesses, egr coolers, DPF Filters, fuel actuaters, injectors, ECMs, fuel pressure sensors , fuel temperature sensors, coolant sensors,ETC.

It's on ongoing thing, there are a couple in the shop right now for emmisions related problems.

The point of my post was to point out that their are alot of things that could give one fits from time to time, and if they are anything like the trucks, will.

So ya, my views are somewhat tainted, When I started looking at tractors last year I really wasn't ready to buy, then I learned about the upcoming tier 4 machines and got er done
I do sincerely hope that the new machines are trouble free, but I was not willing to take the chance.

 

[DarkBlack]

Yup, sales supporters posting of getting a shiny stainless exhaust, or "improved performance", are really "putting lipstick on a pig".

 

[coobie]

My opinions are based largely on what I have seen on the trucks at work.
I'm a driver, Yes I am assuming that the systems on the tractors are going to be similar, smaller, 3 or 4 cyl instead of six and smaller displacement, the earlier trucks that they own don't use urea, the later ones do.
They have 48 Peterbuilts from 2007 to 2014, every one of them, including the 2014s have had issues of one sort or another, We have a sharp young guy in their now that can work on them, and he is good, the other 4 guys do the nuts and bolts stuff.

Before they hired this sharp young guy, almost every truck we had was de=rated with a CEL on, or getting the red light, and bells of death shutting down all the time.

This kid has got them all running well now, but not without cost, wiring harnesses, egr coolers, DPF Filters, fuel actuaters, injectors, ECMs, fuel pressure sensors , fuel temperature sensors, coolant sensors,ETC.

It's on ongoing thing, there are a couple in the shop right now for emmisions related problems.

The point of my post was to point out that their are alot of things that could give one fits from time to time, and if they are anything like the trucks, will.

So ya, my views are somewhat tainted, When I started looking at tractors last year I really wasn't ready to buy, then I learned about the upcoming tier 4 machines and got er done
I do sincerely hope that the new machines are trouble free, but I was not willing to take the chance.

Have to agree with you.I am a retired electric lineman as we started to get new line trucks(international) the last few years they had regen systems on them.What a PIA they were always broke down for some reason or another.The problems I seen were mostly the regen and electric issues.

 

[F3506]

I expect prices will come down as the industry shifts and saturates and is subjected to normal market forces. I should ask my sister if Donaldson, for example, plans on getting into the business of making aftermarket replacements--after all, making industrial filters is their business.

There are several aftermarket companies (including Donaldson) who produce catalytic converters. Those aren't exactly cheap, and they introduced those when? Mid 70's or so it seems like? How long will we have to wait till a DPF is affordable, and will these new electronic gizmos still be running by then?

Those people who think the new machines will suffer a trade in reduction don't get it. The new machines will suffer no trade in deficiency because new machines will continue to cost more and more.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There have been occasions where the first generation implementation of a new technology is a failure compared to later generations so the value of gen 1 products nosedives.

Of course maybe there's a chance some of the aftermarket tuning companies come up with a plan to ditch stuff like the DPF and make it work without it like they've done on some of the trucks.

 

[ShowroomShine]

The new tier 4 tractors, are very nice, and I am sure they would be pleasurable to use, but you are going to have to be OK with hauling it to the dealer and spending the money when things go south, while the dealer throws parts at it..oh this was wrong, oh that was wrong, all the while charging you, until they get lucky and throw the right $art at it.

With the potential for things to go wrong, I kind of equate owning one tier 4 unit, to owning four or five DK 45s and running them all at the same time, this is just my opinion, your mileage may vary

Do you think your local tractor dealer that has been selling tier 3 machines is going to have a GOOD tech on hand to diagnose and repair these modern, electronic emission systems?
A code will often point you in the right direction but could be 3 or four different component$ or...could be grounds, bad wire in the wiring harne$$ SOMEWHERE, resistance in a plug or wire, broken or chewed wire....
These new tier 4 rigs have got alot of wiring, and it all has to be good for all this electronical wizardry to work right...or even correctly diagnose, time is money on both ends.

I'm getting older, to me less is more, my DK 45 motor rattles a little bit, but its pretty quite in the Cab

You guys that are brave enough to put your nuts on the stump good luck to ya:thumbsup:

So to the OP ....Tier3=simple, mostly mechanical controls and injection.........Tier 4=complex elecronics, high pressure common rail electronic injection,and emmison controls, you decide what is best for you

Um, not so fast. Tier 4 really adds no more electronics or hardware than a computer controlled Tier 3 machine. As I said, basically you get a cool stainless muffler and a little different user experience.

And to address your other question, in our dealership, all tech's have to be Tier 4 certified and/or trained to be able to move forward with Tier 4 machines.

 

[MHarryE]

Unless somebody screws up, the DPF should be good for the life of the tractor although they may require cleaning. Many shops around are now able to clean DPF's, cost dependent on how badly it is dirtied up (raw fuel getting to the DPF can gunk it up and require extra cleaning). I assumed Denso is the Kubota injector supplier, and they make a super injector. One problem with high pressure common rail systems is the high pressure (some are 30,000 psi or more) vs the 2400 psi on my L5740 is abrasive. Denso injectors are especially wear resistant, better even than Bosch. As far as mechanics knowing how to work on the engines, buying Deere should ease one's concerns because they have had common rail for many years. What is new on CUTs is old hat to them.