Tier 4

[MinnesotaEric]

Tier 4 keeps Minnesotans working.

Here is the air intake on the new 2014 Tier4 B (final) 60 hp Kioti I've purchased. Donaldson is a Minnesota-based company that makes industrial filters and filtration products for an increasingly dirty world. Good sales people will pop the hood, and, among other things, point out that their product uses a Donaldson two-stage intake system. All the finest equipment OEMs use Donaldson's products.

Tier 4 technology keeps western and often American engineers and manufacturers at work, because let's face it, it doesn't take as much engineering or manufacturing know-how to build a less-expensive, dirtier-running engine.

 

[k0ua]

Tier 4 keeps Minnesotans working.

Here is the air intake on the new 2014 Tier4 B (final) 60 hp Kioti I've purchased. Donaldson is a Minnesota-based company that makes industrial filters and filtration products for an increasingly dirty world. Good sales people will pop the hood, and, among other things, point out that their product uses a Donaldson two-stage intake system. All the finest equipment OEMs use Donaldson's products.


Tier 4 technology keeps western and often American engineers and manufacturers at work, because let's face it, it doesn't take as much engineering or manufacturing know-how to build a less-expensive, dirtier-running engine.

My Kioti also uses the Donaldson Air filter.

A major and interesting change to the hood latch on that new Kioti.

 

[murphy1244]

My Kioti also uses the Donaldson Air filter.

A major and interesting change to the hood latch on that new Kioti.

Not only that it seems the hood is different. You can get to the battery now easier since it looks like the grill is part of the hood.

 

[DarkBlack]

Yeh great.... It gives jobs to the urea chemical plants.

 

[k0ua]

Not only that it seems the hood is different. You can get to the battery now easier since it looks like the grill is part of the hood.

Yep, that looks like an improvement. Not having to fiddle with taking that front grill off with those goofy little fasteners. I think you know the ones.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Yep, that looks like an improvement. Not having to fiddle with taking that front grill off with those goofy little fasteners. I think you know the ones.

If I were to do anything more significant than an oil change, the hood would come off still because the hood only tips up about 45 degrees and is in the way on the back half of the engine compartment.

Compared to a modern car or truck, this does look like child's play to work on. Everything is easy to get at--until, that is, the thing you want to get at is under the cab. Then it sucks because there is no provision to tilt the cab whatsoever, as the cab can only be moved one way: straight up with a gantry crane.

One good thing: The $325 parts and service manuals are really good.

 

[k0ua]

Double post: I don't know why.

You can kill the double post (after it happens) by going back in and edit post. the press delete post.. check delete message. then press delete at the bottom again..

 

[MinnesotaEric]

OK. Let's pretend we believe that for a second. Then please explain how a singular tractor addition: That being a "cool stainless muffler" accomplish a "different user experience"??

All the tier 4 machines are quieter.

 

[F3506]

All the tier 4 machines are quieter.

How much more? Got any db comparisons?

 

[RollingsFarms]

Half the fun in owning a tractor is being able to roll black smoke. Can't do that with a tier 4 machine. Oh well, I'll just keep buying tractors that are tier 2 (like my 5325) and ones that are pre-emissions (ie. good old iron).

 

[coobie]

How much more? Got any db comparisons?

I would also be curious with the DB comparsion of 4 tier verses 3 tier.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I would also be curious with the DB comparsion of 4 tier verses 3 tier.

This Massey video is pretty typical of all the tier 4 tractors I tested.

 

[F3506]

This Massey video is pretty typical of all the tier 4 tractors I tested.

I watched the video. He mentions the "all new" Mitsubishi engine. What engine did they run before? I'm in the market for a tractor and have been trying to keep an open mind in regards to all brands. I've studied test results from Nebraska on many models I've looked at. The Kubota M9000 (older than tier 3) was rated at 79.9db with a cab. The brand new M9960 is rated at 79.7 db. Doesn't "sound" like much of an improvement to me.

Forgive me for being pessimistic, but a sales video isn't something I'm going to trust anymore than a used car (or tractor) salesman.

 

[RollingsFarms]

I watched the video. He mentions the "all new" Mitsubishi engine. What engine did they run before? I'm in the market for a tractor and have been trying to keep an open mind in regards to all brands. I've studied test results from Nebraska on many models I've looked at. The Kubota M9000 (older than tier 3) was rated at 79.9db with a cab. The brand new M9960 is rated at 79.7 db. Doesn't "sound" like much of an improvement to me. Forgive me for being pessimistic, but a sales video isn't something I'm going to trust anymore than a used car (or tractor) salesman.

I have the 3.0 5cyl in my 5325 and I'd always heard how loud it was and it even sounded pretty loud in the video I watched that the dealer shot for me prior to be buying it. After I got it home and ran it some, shoot that thing ain't loud! It's smooth as butter in any rpm I've ran it and it's a whole lot less "clankity" then my 2.9 in my 5203 was! I smell a whole lot less diesel fumes from this 5325 then I did my 5203 and my 5203 had more emissions crap on it! Explain that. To be honest those Kubota diesels run smooth as can be. You wanna hear clankity and loud? Go listen to a yanmar sometime, good gracious those things are loud!

 

[F3506]

I have the 3.0 5cyl in my 5325 and I'd always heard how loud it was and it even sounded pretty loud in the video I watched that the dealer shot for me prior to be buying it. After I got it home and ran it some, shoot that thing ain't loud! It's smooth as butter in any rpm I've ran it and it's a whole lot less "clankity" then my 2.9 in my 5203 was!

Too bad we don't have an actual comparison from a sound meter. This has been one of the things I've been studying. Nebraska lists your old 5203 without cab at 91 db. It lists the 5325 at 78.8, but that's with a cab. Some of the older Deere's were down around 72 db with a cab. (75+ PTO hp). I haven't figured out yet why the older tractors were more quite. New injection technology should help with noise, not hinder it.

 

[balreadysaid]

My opinions are based largely on what I have seen on the trucks at work.
I'm a driver, Yes I am assuming that the systems on the tractors are going to be similar, smaller, 3 or 4 cyl instead of six and smaller displacement, the earlier trucks that they own don't use urea, the later ones do.
They have 48 Peterbuilts from 2007 to 2014, every one of them, including the 2014s have had issues of one sort or another, We have a sharp young guy in their now that can work on them, and he is good, the other 4 guys do the nuts and bolts stuff.

Before they hired this sharp young guy, almost every truck we had was de=rated with a CEL on, or getting the red light, and bells of death shutting down all the time.

This kid has got them all running well now, but not without cost, wiring harnesses, egr coolers, DPF Filters, fuel actuaters, injectors, ECMs, fuel pressure sensors , fuel temperature sensors, coolant sensors,ETC.

It's on ongoing thing, there are a couple in the shop right now for emmisions related problems.

The point of my post was to point out that their are alot of things that could give one fits from time to time, and if they are anything like the trucks, will.

So ya, my views are somewhat tainted, When I started looking at tractors last year I really wasn't ready to buy, then I learned about the upcoming tier 4 machines and got er done
I do sincerely hope that the new machines are trouble free, but I was not willing to take the chance.

I come from same background but my family owns a truck stop and another large towing heavy truck shop on the other side of town. everything you said is exactly how I see it with all this. its like we already know what to expect.

 

[jyoutz]

One thing that I haven't seen discussed in this thread is emissions affects to the operator. I've owned a diesel tractor for over 15 years and use it regularly. I have never enjoyed the smell of diesel particulates, and after busing the tractor for many hors, I ocassionally get a headache. Can any of the owners of the tier 4 machines tell me if the operator will notice less diesel smell? If so, I will buy one for this reason alone.

 

[k0ua]

One thing that I haven't seen discussed in this thread is emissions affects to the operator. I've owned a diesel tractor for over 15 years and use it regularly. I have never enjoyed the smell of diesel particulates, and after busing the tractor for many hors, I ocassionally get a headache. Can any of the owners of the tier 4 machines tell me if the operator will notice less diesel smell? If so, I will buy one for this reason alone.

While i don't own a Tier 4 final, I do own a Tier 4 interim. And I notice less smell even with my Tier 4 interim. some people call it a tier 3, but I believe it is technically a Tier 4 interim. I have owned diesel tractors for over 20 years, and I have noticed less smell with this one than my first one for sure. My first tractor was an old Long 2360, made in Romania, and it had a LOT of diesel smell. All reports I have heard are that the Tier 4 Final machines have much less to almost a non-existent diesel smell.. Go try one at a dealer and see what you think.

 

[GManBart]

One thing that I haven't seen discussed in this thread is emissions affects to the operator. I've owned a diesel tractor for over 15 years and use it regularly. I have never enjoyed the smell of diesel particulates, and after busing the tractor for many hors, I ocassionally get a headache. Can any of the owners of the tier 4 machines tell me if the operator will notice less diesel smell? If so, I will buy one for this reason alone.

Even the Tier 3 engine in my LS put out so little smoke/smell I really didn't notice it at all....and the Tier IV engines are even better to the point that there is essentially no smoke or particles to bother you.

 

[MHarryE]

Depends on your tractor size, and the mobile TBN will not show a posters equipment. My Tier4 interim L5740 Kubota is very smokey and smelly, especially at throttle up and start up. My Tier 4 interim M135GX is odor free in any condition. It's a big deal for me because the smell triggers my wife's asthma so I need to be careful to make sure she is not around the smokey one. Same thing with my neighbor - we stopped to talk and when I restarted he was in the exhaust path - I forgot about that. It was rescue inhaler time. The irony is its the smaller tractor my wife is more likely to be working with me. Tier 4 interim on 75HP and larger is the general rule, tier 4 final on the 37 HP to 75 HP models.