diesel466
Silver Member
Maybe on your machines there was little change, But most compact tractors were still mechanical injection,So it is a total new deal with the electronic injection.
Tier 4
- Thread starter ohiodon74
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grm61
Platinum Member
Your nothing more than a talking head salesman.
You don't know what you are talking about.
Piston
Elite Member
Why do you say that? Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation?
When you say he doesn't know what he is talking about, can you explain why you feel this way?
It's incredible how personal some people take these online conversations.
the old grind
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2012
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- 4,412
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- Mid-Michigan
- Tractor
- NH T-1520 HST, NH TC33DA HST, Case DX26 HST, .Terramite T5C, . NH L785
It seems an adjustment we'll all have to make is to get over thinking that more gadgetry is more to go wrong and more headaches to come as we learn to accept the new rules & accompanying hardware. My latest 'Tier-IV A' CUT might be but a very well done, even maxed-out EGR & traditional injection somewhere on the ramp up from T-III to T-IV Final specs, but is still simple and I got in 'just under the wire', as they say.
What might really suck for us Luddites is when buying a healthy late model used machine someday offers few choices without the fancy systems that we expect to go South any day now and be more fu$$ to patch up. While I no longer feel the car/truck systems are tougher to tend to than the old carbs & points and do appreciate the mileage and emissions improvements there may be much more variety in diagnostic & testing gear or technology in the tractor & equip realm. Simple as OBD-I & OBD-2, or so different from brand to brand it skews the resale value or popularity for some vs others? Not obvious to all, I bet.
Those of us spreading fewer annual operating hours over more machines won't feel the same pinch as those who depend on one for the bulk of many more hours use and be the hardest hit by any cost of keeping up. 10-20 ac and three sizes of tractor (newer, Grandpa's classic, & a 'show' toy) can mean just jumping on another for tasks within more than one's capability, not so big a deal. Needing to rely on that one bigger machine with cab, backhoe, etc for hundreds of hrs/year is enough to scare a lot of other folks & I feel their concerns.
Doesn't help that in these times company profits seem to trump consumer value/cost in the eyes of government regulators and with the influence of a 'green' mentality that's demanding these 'improvements' so the US can fix the World's problems by ourselves as always. Could get to where dieing sooner seems less intimidating than facing that uncertain future. (always something good to say about being old, but rising COL isn't our cup o' tea) Anyway, to me the fan is spinnin' away & the doodie is dripping onto it already.
btw: My break was finding a nice '99 Deere UT that's bone dry from top to bottom, save for my drool on the operating platform, and is as traditionally simple as I like 'em. Good luck, guys.
What might really suck for us Luddites is when buying a healthy late model used machine someday offers few choices without the fancy systems that we expect to go South any day now and be more fu$$ to patch up. While I no longer feel the car/truck systems are tougher to tend to than the old carbs & points and do appreciate the mileage and emissions improvements there may be much more variety in diagnostic & testing gear or technology in the tractor & equip realm. Simple as OBD-I & OBD-2, or so different from brand to brand it skews the resale value or popularity for some vs others? Not obvious to all, I bet.
Those of us spreading fewer annual operating hours over more machines won't feel the same pinch as those who depend on one for the bulk of many more hours use and be the hardest hit by any cost of keeping up. 10-20 ac and three sizes of tractor (newer, Grandpa's classic, & a 'show' toy) can mean just jumping on another for tasks within more than one's capability, not so big a deal. Needing to rely on that one bigger machine with cab, backhoe, etc for hundreds of hrs/year is enough to scare a lot of other folks & I feel their concerns.
Doesn't help that in these times company profits seem to trump consumer value/cost in the eyes of government regulators and with the influence of a 'green' mentality that's demanding these 'improvements' so the US can fix the World's problems by ourselves as always. Could get to where dieing sooner seems less intimidating than facing that uncertain future. (always something good to say about being old, but rising COL isn't our cup o' tea) Anyway, to me the fan is spinnin' away & the doodie is dripping onto it already.
btw: My break was finding a nice '99 Deere UT that's bone dry from top to bottom, save for my drool on the operating platform, and is as traditionally simple as I like 'em. Good luck, guys.
Cherokee140
Platinum Member
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- Kingsville MO
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- John Deere 650, Ford 8n, John Deere Model 70 Kubota BX25D
You are spot on. I saw this first hand in the car business. Some dealers, large volume dealers took a very long time to get up to speed. Dealers are not wanting to spend the money on training, thinking that the tech "can figure it out"....after all "they have done it for years" or "they are young and grew up at a computer"....all are very wrong statements. These systems are so different even from one brand to the next....even if it is the same system, the way they do it is different. Makes no difference how long they have serviced it, it is how they view their service department....how they spend money on training. You might get lucky and get one that knows what they are doing....but chances are you are going to come in with a "driveability" problem and they will toss parts at it....in many cases you will be doing that anyway if you know what you are doing. Pulling the part checking resistance, or voltage drop or whatever takes more time then just sticking a new part in and seeing if it is fixed....and if not guess what you needed that part replaced anyway because the wire chewed removed the ground to the sensor and it fried anyway.
Make no mistake this is going to cost you more money....all the way down the road and if you don't think so....well enjoy your time in dream land.
Make no mistake this is going to cost you more money....all the way down the road and if you don't think so....well enjoy your time in dream land.
My opinions are based largely on what I have seen on the trucks at work.
I'm a driver, Yes I am assuming that the systems on the tractors are going to be similar, smaller, 3 or 4 cyl instead of six and smaller displacement, the earlier trucks that they own don't use urea, the later ones do.
They have 48 Peterbuilts from 2007 to 2014, every one of them, including the 2014s have had issues of one sort or another, We have a sharp young guy in their now that can work on them, and he is good, the other 4 guys do the nuts and bolts stuff.
Before they hired this sharp young guy, almost every truck we had was de=rated with a CEL on, or getting the red light, and bells of death shutting down all the time.
This kid has got them all running well now, but not without cost, wiring harnesses, egr coolers, DPF Filters, fuel actuaters, injectors, ECMs, fuel pressure sensors , fuel temperature sensors, coolant sensors,ETC.
It's on ongoing thing, there are a couple in the shop right now for emmisions related problems.
The point of my post was to point out that their are alot of things that could give one fits from time to time, and if they are anything like the trucks, will.
So ya, my views are somewhat tainted, When I started looking at tractors last year I really wasn't ready to buy, then I learned about the upcoming tier 4 machines and got er done
I do sincerely hope that the new machines are trouble free, but I was not willing to take the chance.
ShowroomShine
Gold Member
I was not referring to a compact tractor, I was more referring to a larger 75hp+ machine.
ShowroomShine
Gold Member
Care to explain?
diesel466
Silver Member
The original post was asking about sub and compact tractors,its lots of changes to that class of tractor. I was just trying to point that out.
bad69bird
New member
I agree 100% with you I also am not quite ready to buy until fall but with 0% and about to run out and dwindling new tier 3 machines I hope to be a proud new owner tomorrowMy opinions are based largely on what I have seen on the trucks at work.
I'm a driver, Yes I am assuming that the systems on the tractors are going to be similar, smaller, 3 or 4 cyl instead of six and smaller displacement, the earlier trucks that they own don't use urea, the later ones do.
They have 48 Peterbuilts from 2007 to 2014, every one of them, including the 2014s have had issues of one sort or another, We have a sharp young guy in their now that can work on them, and he is good, the other 4 guys do the nuts and bolts stuff.
Before they hired this sharp young guy, almost every truck we had was de=rated with a CEL on, or getting the red light, and bells of death shutting down all the time.
This kid has got them all running well now, but not without cost, wiring harnesses, egr coolers, DPF Filters, fuel actuaters, injectors, ECMs, fuel pressure sensors , fuel temperature sensors, coolant sensors,ETC.
It's on ongoing thing, there are a couple in the shop right now for emmisions related problems.
The point of my post was to point out that their are alot of things that could give one fits from time to time, and if they are anything like the trucks, will.
So ya, my views are somewhat tainted, When I started looking at tractors last year I really wasn't ready to buy, then I learned about the upcoming tier 4 machines and got er done
I do sincerely hope that the new machines are trouble free, but I was not willing to take the chance.
Dillier23
Silver Member
Wow, this turned from informative to a real emotionally driven pursuit against technology and the folks that tried to explain the new equipment knowledgeably. ShowRoomShine does know what he's talking about, he's been to numerous functions that have went into Tier 4 technology in depth. How do I know? Because the company he sells tractors for is the same company I have done training for the last two years. Case has done millions of hours of testing on this "new" equipment for many years.
All the dealerships that sell top branded tractors ie. Deere, Kubota, Agco, Case IH all have service technician training requirements that have to be met at each dealership. If this training is not completed the dealership is penalized for not having competent service techs.
The information being presented about "all" the trucks at work being broke down due to emissions equipment seems assumptive, is this based on the trucks without emissions equipment never being broke down? All equipment has it's weak points, saying a car with cruise control and electric windows will have less resale value in the future would be considered crazy talk now days. We have all adapted to new technology, along with it's hiccups, but the issues do get worked out and we then consider it to be normal "stuff" that's in a car or on a tractor. Who would argue that the hydrostatic transmission will be a failure and cost too much to fix on a new tractor? I'll bet when it was first introduced that exact argument was being made, now the majority of compacts sold have a hydro transmission.
Here's my two cents on buying a Tier 4 machine. If you don't want one, don't buy one. There are plenty of used machines in the market, buy one of those and let the someone else buy the new units.
All the dealerships that sell top branded tractors ie. Deere, Kubota, Agco, Case IH all have service technician training requirements that have to be met at each dealership. If this training is not completed the dealership is penalized for not having competent service techs.
The information being presented about "all" the trucks at work being broke down due to emissions equipment seems assumptive, is this based on the trucks without emissions equipment never being broke down? All equipment has it's weak points, saying a car with cruise control and electric windows will have less resale value in the future would be considered crazy talk now days. We have all adapted to new technology, along with it's hiccups, but the issues do get worked out and we then consider it to be normal "stuff" that's in a car or on a tractor. Who would argue that the hydrostatic transmission will be a failure and cost too much to fix on a new tractor? I'll bet when it was first introduced that exact argument was being made, now the majority of compacts sold have a hydro transmission.
Here's my two cents on buying a Tier 4 machine. If you don't want one, don't buy one. There are plenty of used machines in the market, buy one of those and let the someone else buy the new units.