So much for a Nissan Leaf!

[houstonscott]

Absolute utter nitwits... and anyone else who can't see through this farce. Citing a recent study, the report notes that, "given current capacity, California's electric grid would be unable to handle the conversion of more than 15 percent of the current automobile stock to electric vehicles." Peak Fuel Report Offers Sober Assessment of San Francisco So yeh, use tax payer money, to be some of the "pioneers" to purchase battery cars that cause as much or more environmental harm than conventional... drawing off a grid system that has already been identified as only able to support only 15% of cars there presently, if they were to go to batteries.:duh: Way to go San Fran!! That's environment political stupidity on a new high level. :thumbdown:

The dumb dumbs in California have been shooting themselves in the foot with so called green issues for 60 years now, a model of what not to do.... HS

 

[buickanddeere]

The dumb dumbs in California have been shooting themselves in the foot with so called green issues for 60 years now, a model of what not to do.... HS

Peaking power plants which tend to be the most expensive and the most polluting will have to be brought online to charge the EV's.
I've tried telling them that on a an Electric Vehicle forum. They can't see past the electrical receptacle and the display on the gasoline pump. Most proponents think they will charge the vehicles via solar cells. Well not at work and not at night while at home.

 

[houstonscott]

Peaking power plants which tend to be the most expensive and the most polluting will have to be brought online to charge the EV's. I've tried telling them that on a an Electric Vehicle forum. They can't see past the electrical receptacle and the display on the gasoline pump. Most proponents think they will charge the vehicles via solar cells. Well not at work and not at night while at home.

Then they'll have blackouts again and ask the surrounding States for power. Yeah, fat chance, last time they welshed on the bill after signing the contracts. Lost PG&E, then wanted government to trump up some phony charges when they found out the new owners (Enron) weren't going to run a power grid! and was about ready to turn the lights out in California. HS

 

[Loren49]

HowStuffWorks "Can the Power Grid Charge Millions of Electric Cars?" The grid will be able to handle it, according to just about every study that's been done over the past few years. As the power grid stands right now, it can already handle millions of electric vehicles without bringing any further power plants online. Speaking of online, with advances in metrics and Internet connectivity for just about everything, utility companies and electric cars both will be able to better manage power in the near future, which means even more cars can plug in.

Electric Cars and the Power Grid: How Are They Coming Together? - Forbes

Electric cars may hold solution for power storage - Los Angeles Times
O
Could Electric Cars Threaten the Grid? | MIT Technology Review

Electric cars can typically be programmed to charge at certain times, rather than just charging as soon as they’re plugged in. If car owners set their cars to be completely charged by a certain time, say 6 a.m., this has the effect of staggering when cars start charging. The start time depends on how depleted the battery is—to finish at 6 a.m. might require starting at 2 a.m. or 4 a.m., depending on how much charging is needed. So instead of a surge of power demand when people get home from work, the charging is spread out through the night.

It’s technically possible for utilities to communicate with cars to have them start charging when there’s excess power being produced, and stop when there’s a peak in demand. That way, utilities could use electric cars to help stabilize the grid, and avoid the need to use inefficient “peaker” power plants. Utilities could pay electric car owners to let them do this.

Lots of possibilities.

Loren

 

[buickanddeere]

Who is going to pay for the infrastructure?
An EV driven to work usually requires charging to ensure a trip home. That is a daytime peak demand timeline.
An EV driven home will be plugged in for 1-3hrs before the EV is taken shopping, picking up the kids, running errands etc.
EV's with Level 1 charging can not afford to be isolated from the electrical grid.'as they need up to 16-18hrs to fully charge.
Level 2 charging is usually 3.3KW or 6.6KW. Still needs 3 to 8 hrs charge time.
As battery packs age vehicles that used to make the round trip and only required nighttime charging . They will require topping up in the daytime to drive for the rest of the day.
The much touted 20 minute charge requires 20 to 40KW . Usually from a 380,440 or 600V three phase supply. That is enough power to push many businesses into a demand penalty from the power Utility.
The 20minute charge also depletes lifespan from the battery packs. The heat dries out the electrolyte.
The typical Battery Electric Vehicle ( BEV ) has the range of a typical ICV with the low fuel warning light illuminated . There is 't the luxury of" re-fuelling " at another time.

 

[Tollster]

Who is going to pay for the infrastructure?
An EV driven to work usually requires charging to ensure a trip home. That is a daytime peak demand timeline.
An EV driven home will be plugged in for 1-3hrs before the EV is taken shopping, picking up the kids, running errands etc.
EV's with Level 1 charging can not afford to be isolated from the electrical grid.'as they need up to 16-18hrs to fully charge.
Level 2 charging is usually 3.3KW or 6.6KW. Still needs 3 to 8 hrs charge time.
As battery packs age vehicles that used to make the round trip and only required nighttime charging . They will require topping up in the daytime to drive for the rest of the day.
The much touted 20 minute charge requires 20 to 40KW . Usually from a 380,440 or 600V three phase supply. That is enough power to push many businesses into a demand penalty from the power Utility.
The 20minute charge also depletes lifespan from the battery packs. The heat dries out the electrolyte.
The typical Battery Electric Vehicle ( BEV ) has the range of a typical ICV with the low fuel warning light illuminated . There is 't the luxury of" re-fuelling " at another time.

While I tend to agree with both of ya'll on various aspects, one thing I think we can agree on is evolving technology..
How many years did it take for the gas engine to evolve into what we have today? Imagine if EV technology had just half that time in general population usage..

B&D: Certainly there where those that rode horse and pony's that defied the horseless carriage!

Loren: I think you'll need nukes to power a US EV infrastructure... simply because even with evolving technology in wind and solar generation, fission is generation on steroids..

 

[houstonscott]

While I tend to agree with both of ya'll on various aspects, one thing I think we can agree on is evolving technology.. How many years did it take for the gas engine to evolve into what we have today? Imagine if EV technology had just half that time in general population usage.. B&D: Certainly there where those that rode horse and pony's that defied the horseless carriage! Loren: I think you'll need nukes to power a US EV infrastructure... simply because even with evolving technology in wind and solar generation, fission is generation on steroids..

Time to tax EV's so they can pay their far share. LOL. HS

 

[buickanddeere]

Take the tax payer and rate payer subsidies away.Then quit penalizing ICEV manufactures if they don't sell a "zero" emissions vehicle.
The BEV would exist mostly on golf courses.
Some Hybrids would exist.

 

[DarkBlack]

It痴 technically possible for utilities to communicate with cars to have them start charging when there痴 excess power being produced, and stop when there痴 a peak in demand. That way, utilities could use electric cars to help stabilize the grid, and avoid the need to use inefficient �eaker power plants. Utilities could pay electric car owners to let them do this.

Lots of possibilities.

Loren

So when you need to run your loved one to the hospital, and you run out to your battery car, you might find the battery is still too low as it hasn't charged because the utility company stopped your charge because the grid was in a high load state. Sure, sign me up..

Your 'logic' in your second idea is just plain silly. "inefficient peaker power plants" wouldn't be used less, when there's more grid load for more battery charging!
These 'dirty' power plants are the usually the "reserve plants" and would be running all the time, not just during peaks as it is now!

 

[DarkBlack]

Loren: I think you'll need nukes to power a US EV infrastructure... simply because even with evolving technology in wind and solar generation, fission is generation on steroids..

I'd consider it a giant leap forward in consumer truth if battery cars were advertised with the nuclear symbol or something similar to give the average uninformed consumer a chance to think over the total impact of their choice.
This would be a huge improvement over the shameful "zero emission" advertising so wrongly allowed currently, along with all the subsidies.