mikehaugen
Elite Member
Maybe a dumb question, but could it be running too lean?
I'm admitting defeat---- Last time on this...........
- Thread starter Uncle Levi
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SPYDERLK
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You are right to address this as a cooling system problem. No other cause could present so acutely. Assuming you 1st verify that coolant flows well, then a head gasket or some other breach that communicates with combustion in some way is the only thing that fits. ... The upside down headgasket, if its possible to assemble that way, could surely block critical flow paths. ... When did the problem start??
larry
buickanddeere
Super Member
As previously stated I don't think the cooling system is the issue. Looks like the symptoms rather than the causes have been addresses.
The possibility of late timing and lean mixture is very likely. In particular if somebody leaned the mixture for economy or there is a gasket leak. Then somebody retarded to the timing to prevent reduce knocking .
The centrifugal weights could be stuck and not advancing timing.
The accuracy of the temp gauge is suspect. Sounds like it's something aftermarket that have been Jerry rigged . Check the accuracy.
Of course she is gonna boil over if you run a machine hard and hot then shut it off. There is still heat soaking into the coolant from the engine and no fan or water pump to dissipate the heat. She's gonna geyser . Run the engine at 1200-1500rpm for 5 minutes to cool down if she is that hot.
How hot is hot? Some people panic when the gauge moves from the lower side of green to the higher side of green.
Are you lugging the guts out of the engine using the rotary cutter? Most people do.
Why tie up the pro with a pto pump on the loader? Deere is noted for having a high flow, high pressure hydraulic system.
Is the pto hydraulic pump loading the engine? Where is the loader oil tank and cooler?
The loader should be supplied from a T in at the high pressure line after the priority valve. Use a closed Center valves on the loader. Return the oil via a ported filter cover.
Is the fan pulley, alternator pulley and fan belt new. Not looking ok but actually new?
Don't super tighten the belt either to prevent slippage.the extra tension will ruin the water pump bearings and alternator bearing?
Are you running the tractor at rated pto rpms or just putting around?
Are you running the tractor nude or with all the sheet metal bolted back on?
The possibility of late timing and lean mixture is very likely. In particular if somebody leaned the mixture for economy or there is a gasket leak. Then somebody retarded to the timing to prevent reduce knocking .
The centrifugal weights could be stuck and not advancing timing.
The accuracy of the temp gauge is suspect. Sounds like it's something aftermarket that have been Jerry rigged . Check the accuracy.
Of course she is gonna boil over if you run a machine hard and hot then shut it off. There is still heat soaking into the coolant from the engine and no fan or water pump to dissipate the heat. She's gonna geyser . Run the engine at 1200-1500rpm for 5 minutes to cool down if she is that hot.
How hot is hot? Some people panic when the gauge moves from the lower side of green to the higher side of green.
Are you lugging the guts out of the engine using the rotary cutter? Most people do.
Why tie up the pro with a pto pump on the loader? Deere is noted for having a high flow, high pressure hydraulic system.
Is the pto hydraulic pump loading the engine? Where is the loader oil tank and cooler?
The loader should be supplied from a T in at the high pressure line after the priority valve. Use a closed Center valves on the loader. Return the oil via a ported filter cover.
Is the fan pulley, alternator pulley and fan belt new. Not looking ok but actually new?
Don't super tighten the belt either to prevent slippage.the extra tension will ruin the water pump bearings and alternator bearing?
Are you running the tractor at rated pto rpms or just putting around?
Are you running the tractor nude or with all the sheet metal bolted back on?
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Tx Jim
New Member
Glen you must be kidding WHERE"s the ""oil cooler"" for a simple loader operation?? I doubt anyone can heat the oil much operating a farm loader.
OP
Uncle Levi
Bronze Member
It's been this way since I bought it Larry. That's why I've replaced all the cooling parts . I'm going to try some more stuff before I start taking the engine apart.
MrWhippy
Gold Member
I guess I'm not understanding this. It dumps coolant AFTER shutdown not while running. Once it cools, how low is the coolant? Could you be overfilling? Have you put a IR thermometer on it? What's the engine actually running? What about the Radiator? Top and bottom hoses?
SPYDERLK
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OK. Now were getting somewhere. ... Unfortunately theres no development history we can access. I have a 2010 Gas so maybe it models yours closely. Why dont we experiment? :
,,,,Drain your coolant and save it.
,,,,Fill with water, but a little low. Cover the core about 1/2"
,,,,Cap it and start it up. Squeeze the top radiator hose and blip the throttle a few times from lo idle using the carb linkage. Does the coolant pressurize immediately and increase as you blip repeatedly?
,,,,Before it heats, remove the cap and look in while you play with rpm. Is the fluid flowing noticeably? Is it bubbling?
,,,,Continue as it warms toward midrange. Does it exhibit flow now? Does any bubbling stop or get worse?
,,,,Stop the engine. What happens?
,,,,When whatever stops, put the cap ON and start the engine. Blip for ~ 15 sec.
,,,,Stop and loosen the radiator cap with a rag. Was there any significant pressure buildup or barely a spit?
... These should tell us something in the course of just a few minutes. :confused3:
the old grind
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A recovery tank may help save coolant till the problem is fixed. Siphoning back would seem to suggest a mis-assembled vs bad/leaking head gasket or a crack that closes as it cools, but that should show itself by spouting when running vs once stopped. I second B&D's ? as to whether there is a few minutes of cool-down regardless of operating cycle or load. Compression test might prove head gasket is ok if fluids aren't mixing.
My JD 1520 gas had a solenoid-type mixture adjusting gadget on the carb bowl that didn't seem to work right. There was a setting procedure that confounded interpretation and IIRC a limp home setting or spring & poppet that were installed in opposite order when it went awry. Seems it ran rich in the patch-up position vs lean despite getting power and drawing current when checked with a clamp-on tester. XS timing advance makes for knocking, delayed timing often causes lean running and that could be enough to cause 'cooking' after shutdown. Valve lash ok? I'd check that with the head still on as it can affect proper cyl scavenging and effective mixture.
Since I'm rambling from left field I'll add one thing I learned the hard way after replacing a part. Bad thermostat (worse symptoms that the OP's) has me buying them in pairs as a rule. I try 'em both before moving on to other checks or swaps. One acid rinse may not be enough, & I never liked closed circuit hydraulics, as I suspect the old 2020 may have, as they can work the engine more than is obvious if the unloader/bypass hangs up. Makes me wonder how hot the hydro oil gets and can it be checked with the point & shoot temp gun. I wouldn't assume that a few small things aren't adding up.
Sorry to just throw wild thoughts out, but I can be stubborn & tend to over-think things, as it has brought results. Prayers for the Mrs.
tog
My JD 1520 gas had a solenoid-type mixture adjusting gadget on the carb bowl that didn't seem to work right. There was a setting procedure that confounded interpretation and IIRC a limp home setting or spring & poppet that were installed in opposite order when it went awry. Seems it ran rich in the patch-up position vs lean despite getting power and drawing current when checked with a clamp-on tester. XS timing advance makes for knocking, delayed timing often causes lean running and that could be enough to cause 'cooking' after shutdown. Valve lash ok? I'd check that with the head still on as it can affect proper cyl scavenging and effective mixture.
Since I'm rambling from left field I'll add one thing I learned the hard way after replacing a part. Bad thermostat (worse symptoms that the OP's) has me buying them in pairs as a rule. I try 'em both before moving on to other checks or swaps. One acid rinse may not be enough, & I never liked closed circuit hydraulics, as I suspect the old 2020 may have, as they can work the engine more than is obvious if the unloader/bypass hangs up. Makes me wonder how hot the hydro oil gets and can it be checked with the point & shoot temp gun. I wouldn't assume that a few small things aren't adding up.
Sorry to just throw wild thoughts out, but I can be stubborn & tend to over-think things, as it has brought results. Prayers for the Mrs.
tog
RitchElbe
Gold Member
Brother you are not whining.. you are keeping the faith..so lets least options
Local Community college that might let you take it in as a class project...ours do here in NC.
Any friends willing to join in?
I know when it comes wood splitting time around here. All the families have cook outs while the men folk do the
splitting and the kids to the stacking..of course the Lady folk do the cooking so it is done right.
Never hurts to ask for help
Local Community college that might let you take it in as a class project...ours do here in NC.
Any friends willing to join in?
I know when it comes wood splitting time around here. All the families have cook outs while the men folk do the
splitting and the kids to the stacking..of course the Lady folk do the cooking so it is done right.
Never hurts to ask for help
rsallen
Platinum Member
Actually Spyder I do like the idea of a gasket that was installed wrong and partially restricting flow. Some of the older stuff was just that way, one has to pay close attention in reassembly.
The biggest problem at this point is discounting all other options because you're never going to reproduce any of the classic symptoms of a bad head gasket.
The biggest problem at this point is discounting all other options because you're never going to reproduce any of the classic symptoms of a bad head gasket.
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