FUEL PROBLEMS with Ethonal

[3930dave]

Well, apply that to the oil companies and such then. Apply it to whomever you choose. One thing is, you are not forced to buy anything. You choose to. You can ride a bicycle if you want. I suggest if you are having a seizure over this stuff, that you boycott all internal combustion engines and retrograde to the 19th century. Then you will find something else to bellyache about.

That is the major flaw in your argument anyway. You claim you are having this forced on you. No you aren't. No one in the government told you that you had to buy a gasoline vehicle. There are VW's and a lot of other vehicles that run on diesel or electricity. If this ethanol thing is going to chap your hide, then just don't buy it. Problem solved! You are not out anything since you won't be buying it, and you are not having your money taken from you and given to the ethanol producers. Now, wasn't this solution easy?

You can buy diesel lawn mowers, UTV's and a host of other things. You could be gasoline free if you chose to, then you can laugh at all of us that still buy it. You will feel better and not risk blowing a gasket over this. It is like the patient who went to the doctor and said, "doc, it hurts when I do this". Doc replies, "well then, don't do that!"

As a believer in Free Will, and someone who will Zag, even when I probably should be following the Zig crowd, I get your argument CuHd.

Unfortunately, that strategy stands up a little better north of the 49'th, up here in Canada. The fact that diesel fuel will float above and below our gasoline price gives me some (perhaps deluded) comfort that there is a semblance of a free market here (gas vs. diesel).

There is something definitely skewed in the American market, as for years diesel fuel has always priced above gasoline in most of the USA. Tin-foil hat thoughts aside, the Pavlovian response that consistent spread creates ("It's more pennies/gallon that gas") as exemplified in many TBN threads means that less road-going diesel platforms get offered in Canada. Few manufacturers will bother supplying a Canadian-only model, unless they are deliberately running an early release run, prior to launching in the USA.

I've also noted that at least in Upstate NY, once you get away from the border/major centres, finding diesel fuel can be a lot more difficult than what I'm used to in Ontario.

Given the major effect energy costs/choices have on our day to day lives, it's somewhat natural that some people will over-react (me included, depending on the phase of the moon.... :confused2 to issues like Ethanol.

We are being "gamed" to some extent on Ethanol, but that isn't really that different than the rest of the energy market in general.... The CanadianTrucking industry continues to ask the Feds here "If we continue to invest in NG fleet vehicles, are you going to keep your paws off NG fuel re. Tranportation Taxes ?".

The silence from our Feds on this NG issue is deafening. I predict that there will be retro-active "Safety" Inspections needed on private NG compressors that fuel vehicles in the future...... enjoy the tax breaks on NG if/while you can, as it probably won't last....

The nature of The Game is that if a significant # of us suddenly decided to switch to bicycles, there would be a huge rise in the number of "Safety" and "Environmental" problems discovered with bicycle tires. It would be really nice if that comment was 100% due to me owning too many tin-foil hats....

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

problem is i cant find a diesel chainsaw, dirtbike or weed wacker!! Lol

Hayes used to make dzl KLR650s, but you'd have to have USMC connections to get one.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/automobiles/24KAWASAKI.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=diesel+motorcycle&st=nyt&oref=slogin

96mpg in a 650cc bike...... ! :drool:

Rgds, D.

 

[bcp]

Diesel chainsaw repels mosquitoes, too.

A Google search will turn up some comments about a diesel chainsaw Echo is testing in Canada.

Bruce

 

[Bota4me]

Diesel chainsaw repels mosquitoes, too. YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXR3ZOPlRys A Google search will turn up some comments about a diesel chainsaw Echo is testing in Canada. Bruce

i wont be trading my stihl 361 for that anytime soon lol

 

[bumperm]

Besides, the EPA mandated Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) would be as big as the chain saw head. And when the DPF heats up to do its "regen" cycle, good luck holding on with all that radiated heat . . . you'd need a Nomex suit just to hang onto the thing. I think the air quality issues are the reason, in the US, we don't have diesel outboard engines and many of the smaller diesels used elsewhere.

bumper

 

[coobie]

Hi does anyone have fuel problems from ethanol? I have had to rebuild my carb 3 times now. Stable is garbage doesn't work!! when I empty the tank it has a ton of water and crap in it. Where can I buy gas with no ethanol in NJ? I heard that race gas is not good to use in my tractor but there is no ethanol in it. Looking for advise thanks

I have been using the marine grade stabil with no issues.Try it you like it.

 

[Copperhead]

Probably one of the reasons I have gradually switched from fuel to electric for a lot of my chainsaw, weed whacker, etc needs. I have a PTO generator for my tractor, and I can go anywhere I need on the property to use the 18" chain saw and stuff to get the job done. Have to use the loader on the tractor anyway, so it is going that direction, so might as well use the PTO generator to power what I need. For weed whacking needs, a couple of 18v batteries on my electric one does what I need on my two acre yard and out buildings, around grain bins, propane tanks, fence row around the two acres, etc. No having to fiddle with gas, plugs, mixing two stroke, the noise, etc. And my time has to be spread around a lot of things going on, so the reduced time to maintain the small stuff is a big plus also.

 

[DarkBlack]

That is the major flaw in your argument anyway. You claim you are having this forced on you. No you aren't. No one in the government told you that you had to buy a gasoline vehicle.

Don't quit your day job and try to make it as a lawyer, you'll starve.
I never made the argument that I was forced to buy a gasoline burning machine.
I said it before, and I'll repeat it for those like you: We're forced to buy ethanol, when we want to buy gasoline.
It's a pretty simple logical situation for most.

 

[Patches]

Arguing with a corn grower is like arguing with the cable company; if you want ESPN you have to buy the 400 cooking and "buy-on-line" home shopping channels to get it

 

[DarkBlack]

I know.
I just like to have fun with these promotional "voices" that think they are saying something new, in their attempt at taking taxpayer money.

 

[3930dave]

Probably one of the reasons I have gradually switched from fuel to electric for a lot of my chainsaw, weed whacker, etc needs. I have a PTO generator for my tractor, and I can go anywhere I need on the property to use the 18" chain saw and stuff to get the job done. Have to use the loader on the tractor anyway, so it is going that direction, so might as well use the PTO generator to power what I need. For weed whacking needs, a couple of 18v batteries on my electric one does what I need on my two acre yard and out buildings, around grain bins, propane tanks, fence row around the two acres, etc. No having to fiddle with gas, plugs, mixing two stroke, the noise, etc. And my time has to be spread around a lot of things going on, so the reduced time to maintain the small stuff is a big plus also.

You have a point there.

I sold Black and Decker garden tools in a local store, they were good value for what they are. With the upgraded charger, even the 18v NiCd packs served people well - I had many people come in complaining about gas wwackers, and wanting to do lots of grass trimming. I'd sell them the 18v weed wacker, and the $89 drill kit that came with 2 batteries and the upgraded fast charger, as it was cheaper than buying the individual parts.

I sold many of those combos that way; never had one person come back unhappy.

I even had commercial guys buying the 18v stuff. One guy wanted to be able to weed wack early on summer mornings, before the noise bylaws allow gas engine use - they got the jump on their day, w/o risking getting ticketed. Some arbourists would pick up the 18v chainsaws.... good for light work in ackward spots, where you just need to quickly make a few trim cuts.

Right tool for the job.... depends on the job, and who is wielding the tool......

Rgds, D.

 

[Newk]

Use Seafoam fuel stabilizer. Beats everything else and the ethanol. Store the machines over the winter with a splash of Seafoam in the carbs.

 

[coobie]

Use Seafoam fuel stabilizer. Beats everything else and the ethanol. Store the machines over the winter with a splash of Seafoam in the carbs.

Have to disagree with this comment.While seafoam is a very good product it does not reduce the ethanol in fuel.I checked there website and found no information the states so.I use marine grade stabil & starbrite products that both reduce the ethanol in fuel.

 

[Patches]

None of them will reduce the ethanol in fuel. Most of them only promise to extend the fuel's shelf life and mitigate some of ethanol's evils

 

[coobie]

None of them will reduce the ethanol in fuel. Most of them only promise to extend the fuel's shelf life and mitigate some of ethanol's evils

Ya,that's what I meant to say.Thanks for the correction.LOL

 

[vsteel]

I have used ethanol since the 80s. Never had a failure due to it, never used stabilizer. I run it in my chainsaw and the fuel can be over a year old sometimes and it runs like a champ. I have blocked several log truck loads of firewood with it and have fel and blocked 100s of trees. Never a carb issue. I have used it on air cooled engines, water cooled and automotive engines, no issues ever related to fuel. Those of you in the north who put Heet in your tank are just adding alcohol. The reason they put it in is because it isn't to stretch gas but to replace things like MTBE (that is why they are forcing the issue, look up MTBE, it is bad stuff). It boosts octane, oxygen levels, and cleans out water and carbon. Carbs and fuel lines since the 70s have been compatible with alcohol. I think the fuel issues are because of improper storage and the fuel line rot is because someone is skimping on parts and buying horrible cheap Chinese fuel line and seals. E85 where they try and replace gas isn't a good thing in my opinion, but the E10 where they get rid of some of the horribly toxic stuff is good with me.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have used ethanol since the 80s. Never had a failure due to it, never used stabilizer. I run it in my chainsaw and the fuel can be over a year old sometimes and it runs like a champ. I have blocked several log truck loads of firewood with it and have fel and blocked 100s of trees. Never a carb issue. I have used it on air cooled engines, water cooled and automotive engines, no issues ever related to fuel. Those of you in the north who put Heet in your tank are just adding alcohol. The reason they put it in is because it isn't to stretch gas but to replace things like MTBE (that is why they are forcing the issue, look up MTBE, it is bad stuff). It boosts octane, oxygen levels, and cleans out water and carbon. Carbs and fuel lines since the 70s have been compatible with alcohol. I think the fuel issues are because of improper storage and the fuel line rot is because someone is skimping on parts and buying horrible cheap Chinese fuel line and seals. E85 where they try and replace gas isn't a good thing in my opinion, but the E10 where they get rid of some of the horribly toxic stuff is good with me.

I could not disagree more. I maintain about 75 engines. Everything from a small 2 stroke in a Weed Eater to large diesels. Ethanol has caused uncountable issues and bio - diesel is not much better.

Chris

 

[sawtooth]

Yes ethanol causes a host of problems if not used quick enough. Normally don't see a lot of issues if used in 2-3 months but after that it starts. Some people say "oh I've had fuel in my tank for a year" yes may still crank today but inside things are already deteriorating. Small engine stuff is effected the most due to limited use. Use a good fuel stabilizer and it helps though.

 

[Gem99ultra]

snip>

I didn't mind paying 10 cents extra per gallon, but the local stations (2) sell it for 30-40cents premium over ethanol gas.

If you are replacing fuel lines every year, you aren't using the right material or your repair guy is not and wants your return business.
Many years ago, lines would fail in a year or so, but no so for many years since they went to something (IDK what) that is no affected by ethanol. <snip

Gary, I'm really impressed that all of your equipment runs just fine on ethanol blend gasoline. Mine do not. I do need to add though that I'm my own mechanic, so there's no 'repair guy' getting to me.

The equipment that I'm running pure blend gasoline is not old however. None is older than 3 years old. Fuel lines on every string trimmer, chain saw, power washer and leaf blower has required replacing at least once in that period.
Sure - it may be the wrong fuel line. I'm quite sure that there is somewhere fuel line available that is ethanol safe. It just did not come in the equipment that I have, nor is it available at either of the 4 hardware stores I shop at.

I sure didn't realize that I'm getting a bargain of ONLY 10-cents per gallon overcharge for non-ethanol gasoline. I too have read that pure gasoline provides a 10 percent boost in power, thus some amount of increase in gas mileage. I'll make a point to use it in my vehicles every chance I get.

I'm neither here nor there in beating the drum for those that raise corn for gasoline blends. err... as long as they're not using our public water for their profits. People in the mid-West and West are having to limit their water use due to acute water shortage. I'm told that 75% of the fresh water use is for manufacturing and agriculture. If that's true, lets be sure that personal use for US citizens are taken care of first. Hopefully the income for those massive corn growers can be supplemented with some sort of alternative energy production that doesn't soak up our precious water supply.

 

[hawkeye08]

What subsidies? All subsidies targeted at ethanol have been eliminated for a few years now. Now, oil.... they still get some subsidies that they have gotten for over a century. Why are you not crying foul over the oil companies getting taxpayer money? Subsidies are actual money transfers to an entity. There is no such animal for the ethanol folks now, and hasn't been for a few years now.

Since ethanol has no more subsidies, and it is selling for a roughly a dollar less on the Chicago Board of Trade (you know., commodity central) than gasoline is, then the ethanol folks must really be losing their shirt. And even with government mandates, the price of the stuff is still what it is on the board of trade. The producer is only going to get what the market says they are going to get.

Now if you think a reduction in tax for ethanol producers is a subsidy, that would be wrong. It is called cost of doing business and an expense. All expenses are written off. Be it those guys or the local plumber, or any other business. It is done on the schedule C on the 1040. But I would go along with not letting ethanol producers get to write off their business expenses, if everyone also gives up their dependent deduction, child care tax credit, mortgage interest deduction, medical cost deductions, etc, etc. They have a name for that. Wait a minute, it will come to me..... oh yeah, it is called the Fair Tax.

Mostly right, but notice they found ways and will find them again...

From USNEWS (Obama's 2015 Budget Backs Costly Corn Ethanol Subsidies - US News)


The corn ethanol industry has a long history of receiving federal taxpayer subsidies. One of the biggest subsidies – the $6 billion-per-year Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit – was finally allowed to expire in 2011 after a Senate amendment to eliminate it offered by Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Tom Coburn, R-Okla., passed by a 73-27 margin. (The underlying bill ultimately failed to pass, but the amendment signaled that the days of the ethanol industry’s rule on Capitol Hill were over). So, the corn ethanol lobby pivoted to maximize taxpayer subsidies and turned to USDA to secure ethanol blender pump subsidies through the rural energy program which was originally designed to promote rural solar, wind, hydropower and geothermal projects. Congress even specifically barred corn ethanol from receiving taxpayer subsidies through it and other energy title programs in the 2008 Farm Bill. But in 2011 USDA began to allow blender pump subsidies to qualify for these payments since efforts to secure more subsidies through Congress were unsuccessful.

So it was great news that the (otherwise terrible) 2014 farm bill (officially the Agricultural Act of 2014) prevents the mature corn ethanol industry from receiving subsidies to purchase pumps dispensing higher blends of corn ethanol.

Now for the bad news. Less than a month after signing the farm bill into law, the president proposed new subsidies for ethanol blender pumps in his FY 2015 budget proposal. The overall budget was released last Tuesday, with detailed back up documents following in the last few days. Buried on page 158 of the “Analytical Perspectives” document, released Monday, is up to $200 million in new advanced energy manufacturing tax credits for the “construction of infrastructure that contributes to networks of refueling stations that serve alternative fuels,” or in other words, more subsidies for corn ethanol blender pumps and other alternative fuel infrastructure projects. Such is the power of the corn ethanol lobby.