Installing 240V Service To Your Shop - Price Breakdowns...

[ThomasH]

Is that an older model? The reason I ask is because the 700i (your's might not be an "i" model) only calls for a 25A breaker. Just wondering, becuase I could see getting a plasma cutter in my future. Thanks. :thumbsup:

They require a breaker that is about the size of the unit. For example, I have a Everlast 80 Amp cutter, and it wants a 70 amp breaker. Max inrush current on it is 64A, so even a 70A breaker is barely big enough in theory. I don't normally cut anything bigger than 3/4" and most of it is 1/4"-3/8", so I haven't tripped that size breaker.

 

[MossRoad]

Yeah, mine is an older 225 lb transformer based machine.

If it ever burns up I'll get one of the new fangled light little machines too

225#!!!! Oh man! Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

225#!!!! Oh man! Thanks :thumbsup:

Yeah...the new ones are one-hand portable - mine I have to put down my coffee to carry around

 

[ericher69]

Turn that sucker up and tig thick aluminum - electricity is cheap - crank it up and let it eat :laughing:

uh yeah not so much in Ontario!

Sent from my iPhone 5s 64Gb using TractorByNet

 

[dstig1]

Alum has a bad rap, and it deserves it in certain applications (smaller gages). But the biggest copper I have seen is 4/0, and that is 200A. Anything above that, or if the voltage drop calcs don't work out means you are in alum. Yes it gets bigger for the ampacity, but alum is also a lot lighter and easier to bend than copper. I pulled 350MCM wire from my meter to my house as it was 325'+ and I needed that to make the inspector happy. That was a beast to pull, but I can't imagine pulling copper in a comparable grade, even though it would be a smaller gage by 2 or 3 steps. And the cost would be way higher for copper on top of that. Utilities only use alum wire too, so i wouldn't totally dismiss it. It is the standard for HV wires...

 

[dragoneggs]

100 amp worked fine for me, until I got the plasma.

Plasma 70 amps
Compressor 30 amps
Lights 20 amps

The math gets a little wonky adding those up to 100

And then there is my Airco, 60 amps input works for tig aluminum up to 230 amps, so I'm good until I go over 1/4" aluminum.
Then I have to use the 70 amp circuit - it would take 100 amps if I could find some thing to weld at 470 amps :laughing:

But regardless, my son can't use the plasma when I'm using the Airco - have to plan ahead a little.

This situation is exactly what I am worried about down the road... no plasma now but I bet this tool becomes more and more popular for the one man garage/shop!

 

[aczlan]

I need the 50 amp receptacle for my welder, thats what it requires. You may need the 50 amp breaker in the shop to act as a main disconnect. Check your local codes, you may or may not need one but it is still a good idea to be able to cut the power to the shop with the flip of a switch in an emergency.

Here in NY (per the electrician at work), the magic number is 6 handles (or individual circuits) in the breaker panel. 7 or more requires a main breaker for the subpanel. 6 or less does not.

Aaron Z

 

[mikefromnh]

Nec630.11(a) allows for much smaller wire on dedicated welder circuits...

And if the mfr specifies wiring and breaker sizes in the manual that usually super-cedes the code spec's. Most manufactures seem to have gotten away from specifying wire sizes, but if you look at some of the old manual for buzz boxes they recommend 12/2 wire with a 50amp breaker.

 

[muddstopper]

Nec630.11(a) allows for much smaller wire on dedicated welder circuits...

And if the mfr specifies wiring and breaker sizes in the manual that usually super-cedes the code spec's. Most manufactures seem to have gotten away from specifying wire sizes, but if you look at some of the old manual for buzz boxes they recommend 12/2 wire with a 50amp breaker.

Probably a ton of machines wire that way. I never had any problems with my ac/dc tombstone with 60am fuses, but i was wired with #6 wire. It wasnt until I turned the idearc up to 250amps that I started blowing fuses. I have been trying to remember, I dont think I ever had the tombstone cranked all the way up, and dont think the idealarc is likely to see the high setting very often. I just dont normally mess with metal over 1/4-3/8 thick. Even then its stick welding using 1/8 7018.

 

[Sodo]

I just dont normally mess with metal over 1/4-3/8 thick.

Same here!

(sorry couldn't resist )

 

[muddstopper]

Same here!

(sorry couldn't resist )

Get a life

 

[MossRoad]

Has anyone priced out running service to the shop as the original topic asks?

 

[Sodo]

I thought my project would cost $1300 and Rock Knocker said maybe half that ( $650 ). Usually when I assess a project at $1300 actual bids come in at $2600.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Turby, what size welder? I got by for years with a 60amp service to my shop. It wasnt until I upsized my welder that I started running into problems. 250amp DC and a couple of fluorescent lights and it will blow a 60amp fuse. I doubt I could run my welder at full capacity off your 50amp service. Kinda of funny, I thought I was upgradeing when I bought the big welder, heck all I did was create more problems. Who was it that told me i needed to learn to tig weld aluminum anyways.

All I am running is a Lincoln Tombstone...
I added a 180 Amp mig later...
I only run the welder or the compressor...
I plug up which ever one I need to run...
I wish dad would have put in a 100 Amp service to the garage but 50 was all he needed for his motor home...
The length of underground wire he ran from the service to the building was around 150 feet give or take...
I am not sure what gauge the electrician ran but I am sure that it was sized for a 50 Amp service...
When funds allow I am going to upgrade the shop...

 

[MossRoad]

I thought my project would cost $1300 and Rock Knocker said maybe half that ( $650 ). Usually when I assess a project at $1300 actual bids come in at $2600.

Kinda like measure once, pay twice! I hear you. There's an art to estimation.

 

[MossRoad]

I thought my project would cost $1300 and Rock Knocker said maybe half that ( $650 ). Usually when I assess a project at $1300 actual bids come in at $2600.

YIKES!!! I looked at the first picture in "your project"..... that's death waiting to happen. You can't tie neutral to ground in a sub-panel. Well, actually, you "can", but you shouldn't! And $1300 for that? Double Yikes! Didn't read past the first post. Hope it turned out for you.

 

[DarkBlack]

YIKES!!! I looked at the first picture in "your project"..... that's death waiting to happen. You can't tie neutral to ground in a sub-panel. Well, actually, you "can", but you shouldn't! And $1300 for that? Double Yikes! Didn't read past the first post. Hope it turned out for you.

While not code per se, how does tying neutral to ground in a sub-panel cause "death waiting to happen"???
Can you give a story situtaion where it would?

 

[MossRoad]

Everyone forgets that the white neutral wire carries just as much current as the black hot wire. And its the current that kills, not the voltage.

If you tie the neutral to ground, you just made that metal electric box a current carrying piece of metal. Now get one hand on that box, like, say, to turn off a breaker, and get another part of your body on something that has a grounded case, like say, the metal case of that 120v welder, and lets see which path the current takes to ground.... spin the wheel of death and take your chances.

 

[MossRoad]

And, if you tie that neutral to ground, not only have you made that box a current carrying conductor, you've just made every other piece of metal in the entire system a current carrying conductor, like metal outlet boxes, that little screw in the center of a duplex outlet, any piece of metal conduit in the system, and that GFCI may not work now, either, so don't count on it doing squat to save you.

By tying the neutral to ground, you have created two paths for current to go back to the main panel on.

Here's a good read on it, with a lot more tact than I have! :laughing: Not meaning to offend anyone. I just don't want someone to fry. That's all.

Why separate the ground bar from the neutral bar in a sub-panel? | ES Grounding Solutions | Electrical Grounding Questions and Answers Blog

 

[DarkBlack]

Everyone forgets that the white neutral wire carries just as much current as the black hot wire. And its the current that kills, not the voltage.

If you tie the neutral to ground, you just made that metal electric box a current carrying piece of metal. Now get one hand on that box, like, say, to turn off a breaker, and get another part of your body on something that has a grounded case, like say, the metal case of that 120v welder, and lets see which path the current takes to ground.... spin the wheel of death and take your chances.

I didn't forget anything.
If you didn't tie it at the sub, it's tied at the service. Either way, it's at the same voltage potential... regarding human danger currents....