Converting a woodsplitter into a firewood processor

[Scooby074]

Some action vids. Apologies, they are not very good. Bouncing all over the place. Near the end of the first one and the entire second one is better. Have your Gravol handy.

 

[Scooby074]

 

[Scooby074]

Yeah....that's a pretty rough looking piece of wood there. How did the splitter react to those big knotty parts? That's about what all my wood around here looks like. Even the straight sections of the log are knotty as all get out. My little splitter has a hard time with them and some times I have to beat a clunker out and reposition it several times before It softens up enough to bust open. When I do my processor I want to make sure it has enough splitting power to power on through those knots without having to mess with having to dig them out and take another wack at it.

Most all the video you see of these machines in action shows them splitting nice clean straight grained wood. I was just wondering how it worked out in the real world. What kind of wood is that you have there? It looks a little like maple but the way the bark on some of the pieces look it looks like it could be white oak. I guess I need to eat more carrots my old eyes aren't what they used to be.

With the 2 way traditional wedge it handles everything you throw at it. I have the pressure set at about 2600psi. That means about 25ton at the wedge.

The problems come up with the 4way. The larger stringy, knotty stuff sometimes has to be flipped end to end to split. A few times I had to pull the 4way off to knock the round down a bit before continuing. I keep a sledgehammer by the processor to knock off stuck blocks lol.

If you want "guaranteed" splitting in the tough stuff with a 4 way or even worse, a 6 or 8 way box, you will need more than 25 ton by far. 35 or 40 ton I bet. If you look at the larger Cord Kings (the ones that can take 26" + wood) they are around 42 ton standard with 58t as the option. I think that is a good indication of power required. Cord King makes one of the best industrial processors out there. The 20.5" cap cord king comes standard with 29t and 42 as the option. Cord King CS27-40 (Model 60) - Cord King

A knife style ("euro") wedge like I plan on building will likely help splitting performance. My wedge is kinda blunted and steep. Much less Resistance with a knife style.

In the pile there was lots of maple. Some oak. Some stringy birch.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Can you explain the difference between the euro knife and the traditional wedge?

 

[Scooby074]

This is what I call a traditional wedge.

This is what I call a "Euro" or knife style wedge. All (most?) the processors out of Scandinavia use this style. Its thin and sharp. Works more like a slicer as opposed to the NA style wide wedge that acts like a popper.

 

[muddstopper]

I didnt realize that a knife wedge was considered Euro. I have never been to Europe, and have been building knife edges since way before the internet. As for the tonnage, I think you are on the right path with your suggestions. I use a 6way "Euro" style wedge. I have a 5in bore cyl. It will pretty much split anything I throw at it and I regularly split 30in dia rounds, Oaks, reds and white, Hickory, I think being the tuffest stuff. There are occasions that I bog the splitter on big forked or knotty junk. I have only stuck a round on the wedge once. A 5in bore cyl @2500psi is around 25 tons, @3000psi around 29tons. My actual pressure is probably somewhere in the middle of the pressures listed. For multiple splits I think a true 25tons is about as low as I would want to go. Of course if your splitting birch, aspen and such, I am sure you can get by with less.

 

[kiotiken]

You guys are scarring me, I'm planning to use a 4" cylinder at about 2750 psi and I'm hoping to use a 6 way "Euro" style splitting head. I thought about a 5" cylinder but stuck with a 4" because I want the extra speed. I guess a new cylinder could be in my future.

 

[Scooby074]

You guys are scarring me, I'm planning to use a 4" cylinder at about 2750 psi and I'm hoping to use a 6 way "Euro" style splitting head. I thought about a 5" cylinder but stuck with a 4" because I want the extra speed. I guess a new cylinder could be in my future.

You might be ok... but 17 ton isnt a lot of push, particularly with a multi wedge. If your wood is straight grained and small you would be OK, but who has that consistently?

The Hakki Pilke 1x42 only has 13t of push, and can use a multi wedge, but it maxes out at 16".

I think Id still go with a larger cylinder to get the tonnage up especially with the wood we typically see over here. Its not all straight grained white paper birch. I know in my experience so far I wish I had a larger cylinder. And a larger pump.

You bought it at PA right? They'll swap out what you got no problems.

 

[Scooby074]

I didnt realize that a knife wedge was considered Euro. I have never been to Europe, and have been building knife edges since way before the internet. As for the tonnage, I think you are on the right path with your suggestions. I use a 6way "Euro" style wedge. I have a 5in bore cyl. It will pretty much split anything I throw at it and I regularly split 30in dia rounds, Oaks, reds and white, Hickory, I think being the tuffest stuff. There are occasions that I bog the splitter on big forked or knotty junk. I have only stuck a round on the wedge once. A 5in bore cyl @2500psi is around 25 tons, @3000psi around 29tons. My actual pressure is probably somewhere in the middle of the pressures listed. For multiple splits I think a true 25tons is about as low as I would want to go. Of course if your splitting birch, aspen and such, I am sure you can get by with less.

I havent been to Europe either lol. But when it comes to these small processors, and home wood processing / woodlots, the Scandinavians have it way over what we do. They take firewood way more seriously.

The first place I ever saw a knife style was on the processors from Hikki Pilke. Nobody around here makes a splitter with a knife style. Manufactures other than Splitfire almost always use the wide popper wedge.

Thats why I coined the term Euro wedge, they just dont commonly exist on NA machines other than Splitfire, and it's a different concept with its bi-directional design. IIRC from when I was building mine, there might be a couple of smaller manufacturers using a knife style wedge in NA whose name escapes me, but they were a little different design than the Euro, with a larger backing block behind the knife edge. The euros make for much less resistance because of their thin profile

I guess you were just ahead of your time!! You should have patented it. You'd be rich:thumbsup:

 

[kiotiken]

You might be ok... but 17 ton isnt a lot of push, particularly with a multi wedge. If your wood is straight grained and small you would be OK, but who has that consistently?

The Hakki Pilke 1x42 only has 13t of push, and can use a multi wedge, but it maxes out at 16".

I think Id still go with a larger cylinder to get the tonnage up especially with the wood we typically see over here. Its not all straight grained white paper birch. I know in my experience so far I wish I had a larger cylinder. And a larger pump.

You bought it at PA right? They'll swap out what you got no problems.

Errr... OK, I'm thinking about it. Yes, it's from PA and I'll be there in the next week or so anyway. The pump is from Hydraulic Surplus, it's a 28GPM / 7 GPM dual stage pump (900 / 3000 psi).

 

[kiotiken]

Just did some figuring for an average cycle time for a 5" vs 4" cylinder.

5" 53,014 lbs push
24" @ 6.5 inch/s = 3.69 s. - Cylinder return
10" @ 1.4 inch/s = 7.14 s - First 10" into the round
14" @ 5.5 inch/s = 2.55 s - High pressure kicks in

5" cycle time = 13.38 s

4" Cylinder 33,929 lbs push
24" @ 11.4 inch/s = 2.14 s
10" @ 2.1 inch/s = 4.72 s
14" @ 8.6 inch/s = 1.63 s

4" cycle time = 6.35 s.

Less time spent with a sledge hammer knocking stuck rounds out... priceless.

That's a big hit for the cycle time, more than double. To me, to have a productive processor, it all comes down to the splitter's speed. I've still got to give this some thought...

 

[Scooby074]

28 gpm.. should help. Mines 22.

I wouldnt get that bogged down chasing seconds. In practice so long as your pusher is retracted when you are finished cutting, thats all you need. You really are limited by cut speed at that point.

Thats what I am frustrated with, I can cut faster than my pusher retracts, so I have to either wait for a full retract, or pause halfway though the cut.

And dont think too much about speed reduction on the HP side. My splitter rarely shifts into HP. Probably 90% of the time it stays in LP, and even then it only shifts for a second until the wood cracks. Full strokes on HP are very rare.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Ken, are you planning on a build? You aren't far from me and I'd like to check it out once you get going if you don't mind

 

[kiotiken]

Ken, are you planning on a build? You aren't far from me and I'd like to check it out once you get going if you don't mind

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/324028-firewood-processor-build-thread.html

Where abouts are you in Ottawa?

 

[muddstopper]

Just did some figuring for an average cycle time for a 5" vs 4" cylinder.

5" 53,014 lbs push
24" @ 6.5 inch/s = 3.69 s. - Cylinder return
10" @ 1.4 inch/s = 7.14 s - First 10" into the round
14" @ 5.5 inch/s = 2.55 s - High pressure kicks in

5" cycle time = 13.38 s

4" Cylinder 33,929 lbs push
24" @ 11.4 inch/s = 2.14 s
10" @ 2.1 inch/s = 4.72 s
14" @ 8.6 inch/s = 1.63 s

4" cycle time = 6.35 s.

Less time spent with a sledge hammer knocking stuck rounds out... priceless.

That's a big hit for the cycle time, more than double. To me, to have a productive processor, it all comes down to the splitter's speed. I've still got to give this some thought...

Your figures are just estimate times really. Theory only works in the perfect world. If you are going to do multiple splits with your 4in cylinder, you can expect the pump to stay in the low flow/hp mode than it does in the high flow low pressure mode. This will increase your times considerably. Where as the 5in cyl will shift to high flow low pressure much more faster. My splitter has a 5in cyl and a 28gpm 2stage pump, cycle times around 12sec in large dia, 6way splits, I can make five folks tongues hang out splitting with it. Working by myself, i can split a 6x10 trailer load in about 20 min, and not break a sweat. Before the 6way wedge and 5in cylinder, I had a 4in cyl and 4way wedge and i could fill the trailer in about 20min working by myself, not breaking a sweat. Yep the 4way cylinder was faster than the 5in one, but splitting 6ways instead of 4 made up the difference. Just to throw more theory at you, My processor build should be able to do 12way splits, with twin 4 1/2 cylinders and 50 tons. Dia capacity of rounds is 27inches. Cycle times of 6sec. with 30in stroke and 60gpm. Theory says if i split max capacity of 27"x30" rounds, I should be able to split a cord every 3 min. Of course that means I have to saw a round every 6 sec also, and with a 29hp hydraulic chainsaw, it could be possible, but I aint hanging my hat on doing so.

If your serious about doing 6way splits, go with the 5in cyl. You will have fewer hang ups, and split times will still be faster than you can saw it.

Oh and recheck your math, 4cyl cycle time =8.49 not 6.35

4in @900psi=11,300lbs force 5 1/2tons in high flow mode 5in @900psi=17671lbs force 8 3/4tons in high flow mode

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/324028-firewood-processor-build-thread.html

Where abouts are you in Ottawa?

Between Carp and Almonte

 

[davedj1]

scoob, I just re read your entire build thread, very nice work!
I like how you find things that need fixing and or improving and just do it, that's about how I operate.
The thing I found with my splitter is I need a larger cylinder for more power.
I have a 5" x 30" cylinder in the shop waiting for my processor build.
Keep up the good work!
One thing I noticed reading was when you have your ramp in the up position you have two legs with open bottoms exposed, good place for rain to get into and freeze and split them open, don't ask me how I know.
dave

 

[Dead Horse]

Less time spent with a sledge hammer knocking stuck rounds out... priceless.

18 out of 20 times I can rock a stuck round off the (4 way) wedge, sometimes I put a small round (<4) sideways against the ram and the stuck round and slowly "roll" the stuck round up and off the wedge. for really tough situations, I keep a 4' piece of chain with a chain hook on one end near my splitter. Wrap the chain around the round and the the end of the ram and simply back off the ram slowly. This pulls the stuck round off the wedge every single time. The idea came to me one year when all the beating with a maul made absolutely no difference on a stuck apple stump I tried to split.

 

[mx842]

Your figures are just estimate times really. Theory only works in the perfect world. If you are going to do multiple splits with your 4in cylinder, you can expect the pump to stay in the low flow/hp mode than it does in the high flow low pressure mode. This will increase your times considerably. Where as the 5in cyl will shift to high flow low pressure much more faster. My splitter has a 5in cyl and a 28gpm 2stage pump, cycle times around 12sec in large dia, 6way splits, I can make five folks tongues hang out splitting with it. Working by myself, i can split a 6x10 trailer load in about 20 min, and not break a sweat. Before the 6way wedge and 5in cylinder, I had a 4in cyl and 4way wedge and i could fill the trailer in about 20min working by myself, not breaking a sweat. Yep the 4way cylinder was faster than the 5in one, but splitting 6ways instead of 4 made up the difference. Just to throw more theory at you, My processor build should be able to do 12way splits, with twin 4 1/2 cylinders and 50 tons. Dia capacity of rounds is 27inches. Cycle times of 6sec. with 30in stroke and 60gpm. Theory says if i split max capacity of 27"x30" rounds, I should be able to split a cord every 3 min. Of course that means I have to saw a round every 6 sec also, and with a 29hp hydraulic chainsaw, it could be possible, but I aint hanging my hat on doing so.

If your serious about doing 6way splits, go with the 5in cyl. You will have fewer hang ups, and split times will still be faster than you can saw it.

Oh and recheck your math, 4cyl cycle time =8.49 not 6.35

4in @900psi=11,300lbs force 5 1/2tons in high flow mode 5in @900psi=17671lbs force 8 3/4tons in high flow mode

I was wondering about putting a 2 cylinder setup on my build but couldn't find out if that would actually double the pushing power. I have a couple 4", 30" long cylinders I came across. Been looking for a 5 inch one but haven't been able to find one yet......cheap that is.

 

[kiotiken]

18 out of 20 times I can rock a stuck round off the (4 way) wedge, sometimes I put a small round (<4) sideways against the ram and the stuck round and slowly "roll" the stuck round up and off the wedge. for really tough situations, I keep a 4' piece of chain with a chain hook on one end near my splitter. Wrap the chain around the round and the the end of the ram and simply back off the ram slowly. This pulls the stuck round off the wedge every single time. The idea came to me one year when all the beating with a maul made absolutely no difference on a stuck apple stump I tried to split.

I like the idea of the chain. I used to use a small round and jam it between the end of the cylinder and the stuck log to release it on my splitter (the knife head moves on that one).