110v welder and the 3/8 bend test

[aczlan]

Interesting. I would have expected the Miller would have been able to weld 3/16 to thinner material in one pass pretty easily.

It did on 6 of the 8 stake pockets. The last two, I had a little too much heat on the 3/16 part and not quite enough on the thinner part and the weld came right off of the thinner part. That let one side of the stake pocket come off. The other side of the pockets had to be ground off.
I put them back on with a 240V stick welder and tested the others with a 3# sledge.

Aaron Z

 

[MossRoad]

I think the most important thing learned was we're all human, mostly.

 

[MinnesotaDaveChalmers]

Roadhunter and mudstopper

When upgrading to a larger unit (I still have a little one too) I'm a fan of the full size models since they usually have a better duty cycle.

My millermatic 210 is 30% at 210 and 60% at 160 amps.

It's the mid range I look at for high duty cycle since that's where I will normally weld at.
My mig gun actually gets hot before the welding machine does.

The welder works excellent

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

More amp input does not affect duty cycle. We publish the specs and the amp input values at the max output.

 

[muddstopper]

Dave, if I ever upgrade, it will probably be to a miller 252, but thats a few dollars down the road. I have also checked out the everlast 400something or other. Multi process machine and a sight cheaper than the 252.

 

[Sodo]

It did on 6 of the 8 stake pockets. The last two, I had a little too much heat on the 3/16 part and not quite enough on the thinner part and the weld came right off of the thinner part. That let one side of the stake pocket come off.

Aaron a stake pocket sounds like a vertical weld, which can be difficult for a novice. Downhill is a good way to demonstrate a cold weld, and uphill is not easy. I bet you could have gotten better results if you tipped the trailer up sideways. Also weld around the ends and go inside an inch or so.

 

[aczlan]

Aaron a stake pocket sounds like a vertical weld, which can be difficult for a novice. Downhill is a good way to demonstrate a cold weld, and uphill is not easy. I bet you could have gotten better results if you tipped the trailer up sideways. Also weld around the ends and go inside an inch or so.

I might have gotten better results, but it would have been hard to put on its side... IIRC, they were uphill welds because it was easier to start from the bottom.
Lack of available heat was not a problem, they had plenty of heat on the thicker metal (had to grind those welds) but I suspect that I did not spend enough time the thinner metal when I was weaving the gun back and forth (or I was off center in the joint).
The welds had enough heat to burn off the paint from the back of the thinner metal, but apparently not enough to stick to it well.

Aaron Z

 

[Sodo]

Sodo,
Be very careful about ignoring the final test, the etch test. This is a warning, or a cautionary point that should make a reasonable person hesitate. The penetration was not there. The base metal was not deeply fused. While I am sure it definitely fused to an extent, it was not an indication that it was properly welded. You can have a weld that survives if it is slowly bent and carefully handled during the test.

Mark Thx for the reply but that doesn't worry me much. The bend test is a severe test, it says a LOT. I would never design a weldment that would see that kind of severe loading, I just wouldn't build something like that.

I think you're referring to the 1/4" fillet weld when hit from the backside, but no welding joint design should be done such that (in real life) it is subjected to loading like breaking the fillet test plate. 1/4" fillet weld is an iffy deal from the get-go, for any beginner, and for many machines. Its ideal to weld both sides, and if you cant, it should NEVER be loaded or take impacts like the sledge test. I fully understand what you're saying from a "welding science" point of view though.

OK I'll retract that the "normal guy" can just squirt weld onto 1/4", you're right, 1/4" with a 120v should be afforded extra thought, extra study. Folks should inquire here on forums for tips if they don't have much experience with it. There will be lots of tips saying you can't do it though, have to weed thru them if you want success.

 

[MossRoad]

More amp input does not affect duty cycle. We publish the specs and the amp input values at the max output.

Well, that's what I was thinking.... plug it into a 15 amp outlet or a 30 amp outlet. If you aren't pulling more than 15 amps, you should see no difference at all, correct? Only if you exceed the draw of the outlet will it trip the breaker, or run the machine longer than its duty cycle for the power you are using will it shut down the machine, correct?

 

[muddstopper]

Mark, I guess the machines are designed to shut down when they get too hot, duty cycle, but My question now is, if input amps doesnt effect performance, then why all the hooplah about wireing in 30amp breakers to get more out of the machine. If I am on the right track here, ( AND I MIGHT NOT BE SO FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME),Most migs are Constant Voltage (CV) machines, therefore volts at the gun remain mostly constant and wire speed determines the amps or heat put into the weld. More speed of the wire= more amps. Amps are also effected by wire size and by arc lenght. My thoughts are more amps available at the breaker allows more available amps at the gun. A bigger breaker doesnt effect Voltage input to machine, only amp input, but it takes volts to push the amps and the maximum amps available at the gun is limited to how many amps can be pushed by the available voltage. I have 127v at my breaker box, does that mean I can expect more performance out of a 120v mig than someone using the same machine but with only 120v at the breakerbox? Everything else being equal.

Volts x Amps=Watts. Mig welders are DC volts not AC. The formula to convert ac to dc is AC = DC / 0.636 The everlast machine is rated at 135amps@21V. This would be 2835 watts. The miller is 90amp@20v=1800watts. At 230v input is 23.5V @ 150amps=3525W. At 20v@150amp=3000W. It is evident the Everlast machine should outperform the miller at 120v, but is equally evident that at 230v, the miller can out weld the 120v machine. I havent done the math on any other dual voltage machines, but I expect similar results. With that in mind, it would seem silly to me to purchase a dual voltage machine if you only plan to run it on 120v, but it is also silly to me to expect a 120v machine to compare to a 230v machine when it comes to the amount of heat that can be applied to a weld. Both machines are converting AC to DC, power in power out. I dont know how it works, but it seems to me that somewhere in the ac/dc conversion, the dual voltage machines are loosing a ton of power, possibly only pulling off one leg of the available 230 power supply???, Or extra power is being converted to heat in the ac/dc power conversion, resulting in lower duty cycles.