Converting a woodsplitter into a firewood processor

[muddstopper]

I was wondering about putting a 2 cylinder setup on my build but couldn't find out if that would actually double the pushing power. I have a couple 4", 30" long cylinders I came across. Been looking for a 5 inch one but haven't been able to find one yet......cheap that is.

finding matching cylinders at a scrap yard is a crap shoot. I looked for quite a long time without any luck. To big, to small, to long to short. A member on the arboristsite sent this link craigslist | Page Not Found and I bought 8 of those cylinders. I didnt want but 2, but truck freight made shipping cost more than the cost of the cyl. I bought all he had left so i could spread the cost of the freight. I'll probably sell what I dont need locally, unless someone wants to drive to pick one up. I have 5 for sale, but the freight on 1 makes shipping out of the question unless someone is desperate. 4.5bore, 29.5in stroke, 2.5in rod. Base pins are 2.5in dia, rod pins, 2in dia. Ports 1in. These cylinders are new surplus W24 Case loader cylinders. They are over $5700 each new. With The freight I had to pay to get them, I need $200 each to come out, but thats still a deal considering USA made versus the China made cyl at Northern or TSC

Using two cylinders of the same bore will double your force, not exact, but close enough. 2-4in cylinders will be about the same as 1-6in cylinder.

Whoops, link no longer works, but was working when I started this post. I have pics if anyone is interested.

 

[mx842]

finding matching cylinders at a scrap yard is a crap shoot. I looked for quite a long time without any luck. To big, to small, to long to short. A member on the arboristsite sent this link craigslist | Page Not Found and I bought 8 of those cylinders. I didnt want but 2, but truck freight made shipping cost more than the cost of the cyl. I bought all he had left so i could spread the cost of the freight. I'll probably sell what I dont need locally, unless someone wants to drive to pick one up. I have 5 for sale, but the freight on 1 makes shipping out of the question unless someone is desperate. 4.5bore, 29.5in stroke, 2.5in rod. Base pins are 2.5in dia, rod pins, 2in dia. Ports 1in. These cylinders are new surplus W24 Case loader cylinders. They are over $5700 each new. With The freight I had to pay to get them, I need $200 each to come out, but thats still a deal considering USA made versus the China made cyl at Northern or TSC

Using two cylinders of the same bore will double your force, not exact, but close enough. 2-4in cylinders will be about the same as 1-6in cylinder.

Whoops, link no longer works, but was working when I started this post. I have pics if anyone is interested.

I wonder what that does to the cycle speed? I have two good cylinders that are basically the same that I could use. The ones you have would be worth doing a road trip for if I didn't already have these two.

I had been thinking about trying to go that route but I couldn't find any information as to just what it would do. I have seen pictures of splitters and processors using two cylinders but nothing was written about what they produced in splitting power nor were they willing to talk about it. Manufacturers can be really tight lipped at times and if you don't have access to engineering specs or been to engineering school and can figure all this mess out on your own it gets into the hit or miss category in a hurry. It takes a lot of time, work, and iron, laying out and fabricating all the brackets and other stuff that makes something like that work properly to not end up with something that produces more splitting power.

I was also wondering how to plumb a setup like that without one cylinder taking more of a hit than the other. I guess a 'T' between the two cylinders and a larger feed line back to the valve would work. But, that's the kind of stuff you have to find out before you go spending a lot of time and money putting something like that together. I'm getting too old and broke to keep doing things the trial and error way like
i have been doing.:laughing:

 

[mx842]

OH......in case anyone is interested I saw these Parker F11 motors on e-bay today. They are rebuilt but still looks to be a pretty good deal.

Rebuilt Parker F11 Series 3780492 10 HP Hydraulic Motor 200606190453 | eBay

 

[aczlan]

I wonder what that does to the cycle speed? I have two good cylinders that are basically the same that I could use. The ones you have would be worth doing a road trip for if I didn't already have these two.

If they are the same size and the flow is the same, the cycle speed would be half the speed of a single cylinder.
In real life with a 2 stage pump, the pump should spend less time in the high pressure stage and more in the high flow stage (twice as much surface area to push against, so twice as much pressure on the push plate for the same hydrualic pressure).

I was also wondering how to plumb a setup like that without one cylinder taking more of a hit than the other. I guess a 'T' between the two cylinders and a larger feed line back to the valve would work. But, that's the kind of stuff you have to find out before you go spending a lot of time and money putting something like that together. I'm getting too old and broke to keep doing things the trial and error way like
i have been doing.:laughing:

If you tee both the inlets and the outlets and feed the tees with a larger hose, they should flow the same.
If the cylinders have 1/2" ports and you want to keep the hose velocity under 15FPM, you would need to feed the tee with a 3/4" hose (to feed 18GPM vs 9 GPM per the chart found on page 3 of this Parker hose sizing guide.

Aaron Z

 

[muddstopper]

twice as many cylnders with same oil flow will cut the speed in half, but will double the force. Assuming both cylinders are the same size. As for splitting the flow between two cylinders, you can spend all kinds of money buying divider or proportioning valves, but for a wood splitter where both cylinders are mounted side by side or stacked, the easiest method would to just use a oversize tee. Use the biggest size hose you can from your control valve and use matching size hoses from tee to cylinder. The tee acts like a manifold distributing the fluid evenly between the cylinders. Now if the cylinders you wish to operate at the same time where spaced out, such as with a FEL lift cylinders, then you would want to use a divider or proportioning to keep the cylinders working evenly. With stacked cylinders mounted inches apart and attached to the same push/mounting plate, I would just use the tee, Which is what I plan on doing.

 

[RYCO PSYCHO]

I should mention, we have engineering at my company... maybe we could help in that aspect...

 

[Colonel Monk]

You could run that setup with one guy. Load log deck, cut till empty. Repeat.

That video is showing "family wood time". Having two little kids who "want to help" Im real familiar with the concept... Basically a lot of people running around trying to help but doing nothing

Regarding this processor in the viddy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33t4V1Wyp6c#t=272

One thing I like about that idea, is the idea of "containerization" of the wood in the trailer. You load those baskets, get home and move them with tractor under shelter, bring into garage with tractor one at a time, or back deck, or what have you.... but you don't handle and stack the wood 18 times. Typical german engineering, they decided not to handle the wood with brawn, and so they don't - at all!

My old man, decided he didn't like the looks of the wood pile or woodshed here at our compound, so it's a quarter mile away on our property, where you can cut the wood and leave the waste laying and and that..... but stacking it in his "manger" , then hauling it from there to the house, which when he's around is: stacking it in the tractor bucket, then driving to house, restacking it in garage in wood rack....... Built the manger with scrap wood and it's not tall enough to stand in, so I can't carry wood in and out without hitting my dang head!

Does anyone else but me get weary of this never ending re-handling of firewood?

It's got to be done, I'm just always wondering "there's got to be a better way" so that you're not rehandling it so much. And I forgot to mention, for those of us with no firewood processor, cutting it, bucking it, throwing it in the trailer, then handling it to split it, then picking it up to get it stacked, etc etc... You all know this too well....

I just wonder if a proper system should also include that kind of thing so that you don't need to haul it.

I'm fresh back in the upper midwest after being in sunny California for a decade and a half, and so I'm reacquainting myself with wood handling and burning. Curious what you guys are doing....

Perhaps a design for a wood "pod" that holds a whole face cord. 2 rows, 4 x 4 x 16" so the unit size is roughly 4 x 4 x 3 ft. Built in fork tubes, and a caster cart at home so you can drop it with loader at the garage door, and then push it into that nook by the door into the garage (that's how we are set up...)

I like the idea of the conveyor just piling it into the basket, but then you're having to lean over the basket all the time to get the wood at the bottom. Removable side would be OK, but might just spill out. Maybe there's a minimum amount of cross tubes that would work well enough and you could remove them one at a time, or reach thru for the wood.

Yeah, the investment on building your baskets wouldn't be cheap, but you'd get all of your handling done in the warmer weather. If I bring it with tractor, I have to start tractor, warm it up 10 minutes, load in bucket (just a 5 foot little bucket) unload in garage, then get another bucket.... I've ended up just getting a load on the tailgate of my truck once a day instead of doing it smarter somehow.

Does anyone handle their wood smart?

 

[kiotiken]

Regarding this processor in the viddy Brennholz machen mit S

One thing I like about that idea, is the idea of "containerization" of the wood in the trailer. You load those baskets, get home and move them with tractor under shelter, bring into garage with tractor one at a time, or back deck, or what have you.... but you don't handle and stack the wood 18 times. Typical german engineering, they decided not to handle the wood with brawn, and so they don't - at all!

My old man, decided he didn't like the looks of the wood pile or woodshed here at our compound, so it's a quarter mile away on our property, where you can cut the wood and leave the waste laying and and that..... but stacking it in his "manger" , then hauling it from there to the house, which when he's around is: stacking it in the tractor bucket, then driving to house, restacking it in garage in wood rack....... Built the manger with scrap wood and it's not tall enough to stand in, so I can't carry wood in and out without hitting my dang head!

Does anyone else but me get weary of this never ending re-handling of firewood?

It's got to be done, I'm just always wondering "there's got to be a better way" so that you're not rehandling it so much. And I forgot to mention, for those of us with no firewood processor, cutting it, bucking it, throwing it in the trailer, then handling it to split it, then picking it up to get it stacked, etc etc... You all know this too well....

I just wonder if a proper system should also include that kind of thing so that you don't need to haul it.

I'm fresh back in the upper midwest after being in sunny California for a decade and a half, and so I'm reacquainting myself with wood handling and burning. Curious what you guys are doing....

Perhaps a design for a wood "pod" that holds a whole face cord. 2 rows, 4 x 4 x 16" so the unit size is roughly 4 x 4 x 3 ft. Built in fork tubes, and a caster cart at home so you can drop it with loader at the garage door, and then push it into that nook by the door into the garage (that's how we are set up...)

I like the idea of the conveyor just piling it into the basket, but then you're having to lean over the basket all the time to get the wood at the bottom. Removable side would be OK, but might just spill out. Maybe there's a minimum amount of cross tubes that would work well enough and you could remove them one at a time, or reach thru for the wood.

Yeah, the investment on building your baskets wouldn't be cheap, but you'd get all of your handling done in the warmer weather. If I bring it with tractor, I have to start tractor, warm it up 10 minutes, load in bucket (just a 5 foot little bucket) unload in garage, then get another bucket.... I've ended up just getting a load on the tailgate of my truck once a day instead of doing it smarter somehow.

Does anyone handle their wood smart?

I use firewood bags. They cost $3.50 each and I've been able to reuse most of them at least once. I welded up a frame that sits over a pallet and hold the bag open. My processor (I'm building it now) will dump wood into the bags. My tractor then carries them away and you can stack them 2 high. When I need more firewood, I grab a pallet, but it on a dolly I build, put it on the back deck and roll it to the back wall. Each bag holds one face cord. You need a pretty strong tractor to lift a face cord, they're over 2000# with green hardwood and they stick out 4' in front of the loader.

 

[Scooby074]

Regarding this processor in the viddy Brennholz machen mit S

One thing I like about that idea, is the idea of "containerization" of the wood in the trailer. You load those baskets, get home and move them with tractor under shelter, bring into garage with tractor one at a time, or back deck, or what have you.... but you don't handle and stack the wood 18 times. Typical german engineering, they decided not to handle the wood with brawn, and so they don't - at all!

My old man, decided he didn't like the looks of the wood pile or woodshed here at our compound, so it's a quarter mile away on our property, where you can cut the wood and leave the waste laying and and that..... but stacking it in his "manger" , then hauling it from there to the house, which when he's around is: stacking it in the tractor bucket, then driving to house, restacking it in garage in wood rack....... Built the manger with scrap wood and it's not tall enough to stand in, so I can't carry wood in and out without hitting my dang head!

Does anyone else but me get weary of this never ending re-handling of firewood?

It's got to be done, I'm just always wondering "there's got to be a better way" so that you're not rehandling it so much. And I forgot to mention, for those of us with no firewood processor, cutting it, bucking it, throwing it in the trailer, then handling it to split it, then picking it up to get it stacked, etc etc... You all know this too well....

I just wonder if a proper system should also include that kind of thing so that you don't need to haul it.

I'm fresh back in the upper midwest after being in sunny California for a decade and a half, and so I'm reacquainting myself with wood handling and burning. Curious what you guys are doing....

Perhaps a design for a wood "pod" that holds a whole face cord. 2 rows, 4 x 4 x 16" so the unit size is roughly 4 x 4 x 3 ft. Built in fork tubes, and a caster cart at home so you can drop it with loader at the garage door, and then push it into that nook by the door into the garage (that's how we are set up...)

I like the idea of the conveyor just piling it into the basket, but then you're having to lean over the basket all the time to get the wood at the bottom. Removable side would be OK, but might just spill out. Maybe there's a minimum amount of cross tubes that would work well enough and you could remove them one at a time, or reach thru for the wood.

Yeah, the investment on building your baskets wouldn't be cheap, but you'd get all of your handling done in the warmer weather. If I bring it with tractor, I have to start tractor, warm it up 10 minutes, load in bucket (just a 5 foot little bucket) unload in garage, then get another bucket.... I've ended up just getting a load on the tailgate of my truck once a day instead of doing it smarter somehow.

Does anyone handle their wood smart?

Right now, I stack in rows, but in the future when I have a larger tractor, I plan on going with bags.

You really need 2000# + lift capacity to handle wet wood in any efficient quantity. Yes you can stack small pallets to keep the weight down, but that sort of defeats the purpose.

There are several other options other than the big bulk bags. As you said, most of these "advanced" firewood handling ideas come out of europe.

One that looks promising and may be cheaper than bags is to use net wrap. The device isnt that complicated. Notice how the euros dry their wood in long splits (1m+) which makes for easier stacking then use a dedicated saw to recut into stove length. Of course you could skip the long drying splits and just go with the netwrap and stove length splits. Member 94Bullitt on here has tried using netwrap with some success.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

So what do you do with the netting after? The bags I can see being reused but if the netting is garbage after, it's rather wasteful.

 

[Scooby074]

Another Euro idea is to bundle the 1m splits with strapping that is commonly used for lumber and other things. Its pretty cheap. Usually a special frame is used to make the bundles than they are either fed through a dedicated saw like above or a chainsaw with a long bar is used to cut to stove length. They are easy to move with a tractor and grapple. Some of the frames mount direct to the 3pt of a tractor

Ive never used any of these methods, but Im really interested in reducing the handling of firewood. I keep a playlist on Youtube full of videos I come across that have good ideas for reduced handling. My hold up now is not having a tractor with enough strength to handle a pallet of wood.

 

[Scooby074]

So what do you do with the netting after? The bags I can see being reused but if the netting is garbage after, it's rather wasteful.

Yup the netting is garbage. Lots of net wrap goes to trash from the average farm. The quantities used for firewood wouldnt even be a blip on the radar in comparison. Bags would get a few years usage depending on the quality of the bags used. Bags would be more expensive than wrap for a single use.

There are other options too, like using the old frames used around those bulk lubricant pallets, or metal baskets, or even making "boxes" out of a base pallet and 3 other pallets in a U.

To me, Netwrap or bags are the best, neatest, solution if not the most environmentally friendly.

With this netwrap system, you could really get a production line going. Check out the 'Still" forklift, its even Stihl orange lol

 

[Colonel Monk]

I use firewood bags. They cost $3.50 each and I've been able to reuse most of them at least once. I welded up a frame that sits over a pallet and hold the bag open. My processor (I'm building it now) will dump wood into the bags. My tractor then carries them away and you can stack them 2 high. When I need more firewood, I grab a pallet, but it on a dolly I build, put it on the back deck and roll it to the back wall. Each bag holds one face cord. You need a pretty strong tractor to lift a face cord, they're over 2000# with green hardwood and they stick out 4' in front of the loader.

I hadn't thought about the wet wood weight!! Dang it. Been cutting all standing dead ash lately killed by the emerald ash borer (dang bugs!) so I'm spoiled and haven't cut any green wood for a few years.

The 3 point with forks could that that, but you're right, I think our bucket is 1200 or 1500 lbs only.

Oh, but yeah, I wasn't thinking the whole face cord, just 2/3rds. So that's 1334 lbs - maybe still a little too heavy, but about the right size. Perhaps crates of 3 feet instead, two per cart.

I like the bag idea. Too big for my tractor I think. Do they make a smaller size?

Curious, do you need to dry before bagging or can you just dry in the bag?

 

[Scooby074]

I hadn't thought about the wet wood weight!! Dang it. Been cutting all standing dead ash lately killed by the emerald ash borer (dang bugs!) so I'm spoiled and haven't cut any green wood for a few years.

The 3 point with forks could that that, but you're right, I think our bucket is 1200 or 1500 lbs only.

Oh, but yeah, I wasn't thinking the whole face cord, just 2/3rds. So that's 1334 lbs - maybe still a little too heavy, but about the right size. Perhaps crates of 3 feet instead, two per cart.

I like the bag idea. Too big for my tractor I think. Do they make a smaller size?

Curious, do you need to dry before bagging or can you just dry in the bag?

There is mesh available that is about 4' tall. A local firewood company is delivering wood on pallets wrapped with this 4' mesh. They call it a 1/2 cord. Thats still over 2100lbs for green ash.

Youd need to do 1/2 that again to be comfortable moving wet wood with the loader. So 2 or 3 ' high stacked on a pallet. This is the same sort of issue I run into with my BX and wood. The BX is even weaker, only able to move 6-700ish pounds, maybe less.
check these guys out. 1/3cd bags.
Toronto Ontario Canada Commercial Bag Suppliers, Bulk Bag Manufacturers, Wholesale Fabric Grocery Bags, FIBC Bags - Bag Supply Canada

 

[Colonel Monk]

Another Euro idea is to bundle the 1m splits with strapping that is commonly used for lumber and other things. Its pretty cheap. Usually a special frame is used to make the bundles than they are either fed through a dedicated saw like above or a chainsaw with a long bar is used to cut to stove length. They are easy to move with a tractor and grapple. Some of the frames mount direct to the 3pt of a tractor

Ive never used any of these methods, but Im really interested in reducing the handling of firewood. I keep a playlist on Youtube full of videos I come across that have good ideas for reduced handling. My hold up now is not having a tractor with enough strength to handle a pallet of wood.

Interesting idea

What I don't like about it, is that it's stacking. My dad's a stacker, maybe that's why I want to just dump them in a crib and burn them. A 3 x 3 crate or basket could stack two high pretty easy, and my tractor could handle that I think. Easily dry, Wet - might not want to have to move too far.

but it is a good idea for getting it where it needs to go next. I can see using a round bale fork to move that around. You build a rack that fits in, and drop it in, cut the strapping, and done.

I'm tired of burning inside the house. I like the idea of the wood boiler. The big pieces can be a chore though. Was loading my neighbor's when they were out of town. The first stacks were most 12-14" 3 foot logs - unsplit. No idea how he gets them in the 18" sq door, but I hurt my shoulder trying to toss one in - too much ashes in there. So was thinking though, if I'm going to be doing that when I'm older I got to handle smaller wood, but don't want to be hauling small pieces in a wheelbarrow either.

You have a woodboiler right? how does your handling method cater to that?

CM

 

[Scooby074]

Interesting idea

What I don't like about it, is that it's stacking. My dad's a stacker, maybe that's why I want to just dump them in a crib and burn them. A 3 x 3 crate or basket could stack two high pretty easy, and my tractor could handle that I think. Easily dry, Wet - might not want to have to move too far.

but it is a good idea for getting it where it needs to go next. I can see using a round bale fork to move that around. You build a rack that fits in, and drop it in, cut the strapping, and done.

I'm tired of burning inside the house. I like the idea of the wood boiler. The big pieces can be a chore though. Was loading my neighbor's when they were out of town. The first stacks were most 12-14" 3 foot logs - unsplit. No idea how he gets them in the 18" sq door, but I hurt my shoulder trying to toss one in - too much ashes in there. So was thinking though, if I'm going to be doing that when I'm older I got to handle smaller wood, but don't want to be hauling small pieces in a wheelbarrow either.

You have a woodboiler right? how does your handling method cater to that?

CM

No woodboiler for me yet. I heat with a Alderlea T6 woodstove. I try to keep my wood in the 20" range.

A gasifying wood boiler with thermal storage, like a Froling or varmebaronen or equivalent combined with solar, mounted in a standalone outdoor building, will likely be my heat source at my new place. These boilers are high efficiency and take sticks in the 21" range which is right in the sweetspot for my processor.

I wouldnt want an outdoor wood furnace that took 3'+ logs for the reason you said, too heavy to feed and also not very efficient. Firewood is getting too expensive here for those types of boilers.

Apart from not having an outdoor boilerhouse with wood storage, this guy has about my "dream" setup. Froling wood boiler with Solar hot water.

 

[muddstopper]

I think I mentioned this earier in this thread. To save handleing, I back my dump trailer under my splitter wedge. The dump bed acts as a table for anything that needs resplit and each stroke of the splitter pushes the wood into the bed of the trailer. Get it full and haul it to the shed, stack off the trailer. Shed gets full, I just let it pile up, then take the tractor fel to scoop it up to hual to the shed once its empty. I think the wood left in piles out in the weater seasons faster than stacked in the shed. I am doing next years wood now, so it will stay in piles until sometime in spring before its stacked.

 

[Colonel Monk]

I think I mentioned this earier in this thread. To save handleing, I back my dump trailer under my splitter wedge. The dump bed acts as a table for anything that needs resplit and each stroke of the splitter pushes the wood into the bed of the trailer. Get it full and haul it to the shed, stack off the trailer. Shed gets full, I just let it pile up, then take the tractor fel to scoop it up to hual to the shed once its empty. I think the wood left in piles out in the weater seasons faster than stacked in the shed. I am doing next years wood now, so it will stay in piles until sometime in spring before its stacked.

I read this old book on firewood, was mostly about axes and axe technique, but had all kinds of info on putting up firewood. You don't think about it, because most of us have already been doing it for decades.

Said that VENTILATION was the number one important thing for proper firewood storage. So ideally, a roof, but no walls on your wood shed. And for dang sure, not a blue tarp completely covering your wood, all the way to the ground. Common sense should tell you that, but I still see rank amateurs doing that same thing, and wondering why their wood is rotten!!

I would agree with you, not just because being out gives VENTILATION but you also get the benefit of the sun in the warmer weather to dry you out.

I'm ready to improve our handling situation.

 

[muddstopper]

I use one of those portable carports to stack my wood under, sides and ends are open, just a roof. I have easy access to all sides of the shed. I usually make my stacks lenghtwise of the shed on each side, then fill in cross ways. I stack to about head high. I will pull wood from one end this year using what I need and refill with new wood at the end of the season. Next year, I pull from the opposite end. The shed is 14x19 and I usually use about a half a shed worth each winter, about 4 cords worth.

 

[Scooby074]

There has been some "interesting" discussion on some of the dedicated firewood sites debating if its heat or airflow that is most crucial in drying. This year I put it to the test and made a solar kiln. I havent done final testing yet, but others have and show that a solar kiln can drop green wood from 30% to 17% in 3 months!

Solar Kiln | Firewood Hoarder's Club Forums
Solar Kiln Firewood Drying | Firewood Hoarder's Club Forums
Solar Kiln | Firewood Hoarder's Club Forums


My wood in the kiln is noticeably dryer than the control. Here's my kiln part way through construction.