Shuttle versus HST

[murphy1244]

I hear ya James. Murph is like me,,,, never quite satisfied.

Yes we both agree with Toolman Tim " More Power!!!"

 

[ovrszd]

I to love the HST as it offers so much control on a steep hillside even. I have countless times enjoyed the fact that I could move the tractor less then a inch with precision control. Now, what I hate about HST tractors is the fact that "HST" means never made in america, or asian tractor, why do we put up with this? I am looking for a larger utility tractor something in the 5000lb 4 wheel drive 40 to 75 HP size. there is nothing much that will fit my needs in HST. I for one think its a shame that New Holland will buy and paint blue any asian tractor they can find. Look at how many times the under 100 cubic inch compacts have changed engines!
Think about what this means to the guy wanting to find parts in 10 years. I for one would gladly pay more for something made in america.

I understand that frustration. If you are willing to spend some serious bucks in newer tractors, you can find models in that HP range with HST. In my opinion 60HP and up should be shuttle trans. Not pimping Kubota, but they build tractors up toward that 60HP number with HST.

I've owned HST, gear, and now Hydraulic Shuttle. I prefer HST in my JD that I mow with. I prefer the shuttle in my M9540. I work in the timber a lot. The precision that others seem to claim with HST I never found. If your HST tractor is designed so that you cannot run the HST pedal and the brakes at the same time precision becomes unattainable when trying to keep from driving into a steep ditch or running off a sharp bluff.

 

[k0ua]

I hear ya James. Murph is like me,,,, never quite satisfied.

What I find ironic is we think nothing of putting a 300 horsepower engine in our lightweight sheet metal boxes we call automobiles, yet my tractor when fully loaded with its loader and rear ballast, loaded tires and my fat A in the seat weight somewhere around 6000 lbs and it has a 38 horsepower engine at the crankshaft, and nets way less than that after going thru the hydro and gear train. Yes I know it is geared way lower, less for speed and more for torque, but still it has to pack all that up steep hills around here. We think of 60 horsepower and up tractors as being very powerful machines, but still the horsepower to weight ratio is pretty small compared to a car.. Now lets compare it to a modern motorcycle. Lets see 125 horsepower, and maybe 600 lbs..?

This summer I was wishing for more horsepower when I was hauling stone from my neighbors house and back to mine. The route of course has some rather severe hills, and one in particular requires a stop and when you pull out you are facing a steep hill. I could not make it in HI range very well.. Oh it would do it, but the engine was really puffing and wanting to drop RPM pretty bad unless I let off of the hydro pedal. So I climbed it in MED. It was just as fast in MED with full pedal as it was in HI with having to back off. I could have used some more ponies. But hard to use ponies you did not buy. Ninety nine percent of the time I cannot make use of any more horsepower in my normal tasks. But roading a tractor around here does take some of the wind out of its sails. Now I guess if I lived in Kansas or some other flat area, it would be a different story.

 

[TSO]

I much prefer hyd . shuttle over hydrostat . Foot throttle and shuttle for loader work .

Many of the newer HST's offer a linked pedal. That is, the pedal position is linked to RPM's as well as travel speed. Essentially, that gives you a similar experience to what you're talking about with shuttle.

Massey, Kubota, Yanmar, and the new Kioti NX tractors offer this.

I understand that frustration. If you are willing to spend some serious bucks in newer tractors, you can find models in that HP range with HST. In my opinion 60HP and up should be shuttle trans. Not pimping Kubota, but they build tractors up toward that 60HP number with HST.

I've owned HST, gear, and now Hydraulic Shuttle. I prefer HST in my JD that I mow with. I prefer the shuttle in my M9540. I work in the timber a lot. The precision that others seem to claim with HST I never found. If your HST tractor is designed so that you cannot run the HST pedal and the brakes at the same time precision becomes unattainable when trying to keep from driving into a steep ditch or running off a sharp bluff.

Massey 1759 (59)
Kubota L6060 (60)
Kioti NX 6010 (60)
Mahindra 6010 (60)
JD 4720 (66)
TYM T554 (55)

All high HP HST's.

And I can't agree with you on the lack of HST precision. Precision operation is one of the main reasons I need HST. I've owned shuttle before, wasn't a fan. Although, I use mine for work so I suppose I do much more precision work than you get into.

 

[motownbrowne]

And I can't agree with you on the lack of HST precision. Precision operation is one of the main reasons I need HST. I've owned shuttle before, wasn't a fan. Although, I use mine for work so I suppose I do much more precision work than you get into.

I agree with you about hst being more precise. Quite a bit more precise in my opinion, but what Richard was saying was that in some setups it's tough to use the steering brakes while operating the hst pedal. I can't speak for all hst tractors, of course. It is definitely possible on my MX. Were it not possible, or convenient to use the steering brakes, that would in my opinion be a problem in some situations, especially in an ag or logging setting.

 

[TSO]

I agree with you about hst being more precise. Quite a bit more precise in my opinion, but what Richard was saying was that in some setups it's tough to use the steering brakes while operating the hst pedal. I can't speak for all hst tractors, of course. It is definitely possible on my MX. Were it not possible, or convenient to use the steering brakes, that would in my opinion be a problem in some situations, especially in an ag or logging setting.

Yeah I can see how the funky pedal location on the Grand L tractors could make brake steering less than convenient. The traditional setup with left side brakes makes precision HST & braking operation a breeze.

 

[TripleR]

I routinely use an HST L5740 and hydro-shuttle M8540 and there is no way I can approach the precision of he L5740 with the 8540 which is one reason I've considered a creeper kit on the 8540; love the tractor, but I'm much more comfortable operating near ditches, drop-offs etc. I'm only an occasional user, so my results may well differ from the regular users with lots more experience.

 

[TripleR]

Yeah I can see how the funky pedal location on the Grand L tractors could make brake steering less than convenient. The traditional setup with left side brakes makes precision HST & braking operation a breeze.

Grand L60's now have left foot brakes unlike my L40, so that's no longer an issue.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I sure wouldn't limit my self to one brand regardless of closeness of dealer. There are many fine tractors that are just as good as Kubota and Kioti, LS tractors for instance and most times a few to several thousand cheaper for a similar tractor but with more standard options.

I don't worry so much about closeness of dealer when looking at tractors. Chances are, you wont ever have to send the tractor in for repair, just get some consumable parts when you buy the tractor (oil, fuel, air & HST filters) and you will be set for several years of maintenance without having to go back to the dealer. If you can get a much better deal at a more distance dealer, evaluate it for overall pricing and quality.

 

[ovrszd]

What I find ironic is we think nothing of putting a 300 horsepower engine in our lightweight sheet metal boxes we call automobiles, yet my tractor when fully loaded with its loader and rear ballast, loaded tires and my fat A in the seat weight somewhere around 6000 lbs and it has a 38 horsepower engine at the crankshaft, and nets way less than that after going thru the hydro and gear train. Yes I know it is geared way lower, less for speed and more for torque, but still it has to pack all that up steep hills around here. We think of 60 horsepower and up tractors as being very powerful machines, but still the horsepower to weight ratio is pretty small compared to a car.. Now lets compare it to a modern motorcycle. Lets see 125 horsepower, and maybe 600 lbs..?

This summer I was wishing for more horsepower when I was hauling stone from my neighbors house and back to mine. The route of course has some rather severe hills, and one in particular requires a stop and when you pull out you are facing a steep hill. I could not make it in HI range very well.. Oh it would do it, but the engine was really puffing and wanting to drop RPM pretty bad unless I let off of the hydro pedal. So I climbed it in MED. It was just as fast in MED with full pedal as it was in HI with having to back off. I could have used some more ponies. But hard to use ponies you did not buy. Ninety nine percent of the time I cannot make use of any more horsepower in my normal tasks. But roading a tractor around here does take some of the wind out of its sails. Now I guess if I lived in Kansas or some other flat area, it would be a different story.

Good points James. And especially about using all our tractor's HP. Very rare. 90% of the time my hand throttle is set at an idle. I use the foot pedal when more ground speed is needed. But the hard work tasks done at a stop or near stop are almost always done at idle. But I sure like having that HP when needed. I often road my tractor and it takes a pretty severe hill for it to not pull it in high gear at 20mph +.