Buying Advice Need help on Final decision

[DK35vince]

Backhoes are fine if used enough to justify the considerable cost. Problem is, the main part of a tractor is the Three Point Hitch, which is covered by the Backhoe. So to use the Three Point Hitch and Backhoe interchangeably, you are always wrestling the Backhoe on or off. Backhoes should not be stored outside. A Backhoe needs to be stored indoors in a space with humidity control.

Any time I use my backhoe I want/need the loader bucket available for backfilling, Etc.
I rarely need the 3 point till after the backhoe work is done and the boxblade or backblade go on for leveling.

My backhoe sat outside under a tarp for years, now it sets on a dirt floor in an unheated barn. No humidity control or special treatment needed.

 

[jeff9366]

Your contradicting yourself with your comment on weight is better
I can tell you from experience, the difference in the performance on the DK loaded tires and not, is night and day, especially after you pull the Hoe off, which takes 2 minutes off, and 5 on.

Weight in the tractor frame contributes to tractor and loader rigidity, strength and lift capacity. Loaded tires are a permanent pre-load.
.
No doubt you can notice a difference with loaded tires. The debatable point is, do you need loaded tires to maintain traction? With 4-WD, most tractor owners do not need loaded tires for traction when performing ground engaging work. I can't speak to your conditions, nor tire type, nor tire wear in particular; you may NEED loaded tires.

(On steeply sloped ground, loaded tires contribute to stability by lowering the center of gravity, but the OP has not mentioned sloped ground as a factor to be considered.)

A mounted implement relieves stress on the front axle and bearings, because implement weight is behind the rear axle. Loaded tires do not reduce front axle and bearing stress, which can be considerable when transporting loads in the bucket, especially over uneven ground. There are a lot of threads about replacing front seals on tractor-loaders on this site.

Soil compaction is a detriment to soil fertility. I try to work with as little tractor weight as possible while still accomplishing whatever the task is.

I said nothing about how long it takes to mount or dismount a Backhoe. I did say to use a Backhoe and the Three Point Hitch interchangeably, the operator has to wrestle the Backhoe on/off to make the Three Point Hitch available.

(At age 67-1/2 years I find wrestling the 110 pound Bucket Spade and 88 pound Ratchet Rake on/off the bucket inconvenient too, even though both mount and dismount quickly.)

Everyone should equip their tractor as they deem best. This site supports diverse opinions, which are valuable to prospective tractor purchasers.

 

[s219]

Generally, my rule of thumb is that loaded rear tires are necessary to offset the weight of the front loader. Additional 3-pt ballast or implement is needed to offset the weight of materials carried in the front loader bucket. If I had a full time backhoe, that would cover all bases.

I test drove my L3200 on the dealer lot before purchase, and before the tires were loaded, and it was downright unstable due to the weight of the FEL. Traction was not an issue on flat ground, but the light bobbing rear end was. I wouldn't recommend anyone put an FEL on a tractor of that weight/wheelbase class (or similar) without running loaded tires. To me that is just the baseline.

I hear you on soil compaction, but if that's a concern then proper tire selection should help. In the case of the two tractors I have owned, most of the rutting I have left was from the front tires, and having loaded rears (or not) won't make any difference there.

 

[serenityseeker64]

Wow, lots of good info to wake up to, thanks to all.

Definitely rethinking the HST, but the DK on the lot does not have it...so that kinda stinks (nether did the nx5010 though). If I go that route no making a deal oh this tier 3 (interim 4?) I guess.

The backhoe is sticking in my mind. A sample of the projects I have is at least 200 feet of trenching for various projects, excavation for a greenhouse base, small koi pond (hand dug one before, but NOT in this soil) many stumps will require some attention, and the list goes on. I may only pull it out a few times a year, but like the 4wd on my truck it is there when I need it and I don't have to ask for someone to do it for me or rent equipment. Probably just justifying to myself but going to try to find a way to budget this..hope I can do so. I really couldn't find much saying it should be stored in a climate controlled situation for humidity etc. I couldn't afford such a set up, and I would hope a piece of hardy equipment such as this wouldn't require it. I know that most true working backhoe attachments spend much of there time on the tractor anyway, so usually outdoors. Mine would be stored in the enclosed pole barn when not in use.

As far as tires, I won't be doing a lot of fieldwork. Few food plots at most (our gardening is all raised beds). Much time will spent on the dirt roads, trails/roads on the property (some of which I will clear), in the woods, dragging trees for firewood, work around the house site, and clearing small sections at the time. We plan to leave the vast majority of the land forested for our own enjoyment and to cultivate the wildlife habitat. I actually did mention the rolling terrain we have, so loaded tires may be of some help I'm thinking. Leaning strongly to Ag tires at this point. Not worried about tearing up a lawn and will rarely be on pavement.

While my wife is no mechanical expert she tends to have good insight. Keeps asking me if we are not better off getting slightly larger and heavier for not only power but stability/safety. Now while I realize we can turn any piece of equipment over given the right circumstances, I like her argument cause it means I can go with something a little larger with less guilt.


Sooooo, while I was thinking I was just walking in and getting something of the lot I am going to re-examine my process. My thoughts at this time are to have the dealers price out a 50HP or close as I can get (hopefully staying with Kioti in part because ergonomically it fit me so much better than others) keeping in mind my total weight, hydraulic gpm and PTO hp, hydraulic extras discussed here, and likely HST (if 1k difference or so will do). Will price with and without backhoe but really want it. Will also need at least a medium duty rotary cutter and land planer but wonder if I'm not better off going to the auction for these (Woods, Land pride or BushHog are on the wish list). I think I will try to go with Ag tires as I dont see a down side. If they are willing to load them for a 100 bucks sounds like a deal to me.

While I was excited about the DK will just have to make a final decision on HST vs shuttle and go from there. Will then look at what I'm offered and how incentives play into it and "zero percent" vs free FEL etc. Will then get comparable price on Mahindra and Kubota, but the dealer support is not as close and I know less about those dealers. Use as a bargaining tool but try not to alienate a dealer I think I want to work with. Whew! Not going to be quite as simple as I thought LOL. Hoping to make this purchase in the next few weeks at most so I will continue looking for ya'lls input on here...keep it coming!

 

[s219]

If you will do a lot of front loader work and/or operate around a construction/building site, I'd vote for R4 industrial tires. They are a lot tougher and handle loads better. They are equivalent to what you'd find on backhoes and other equipment.

 

[serenityseeker64]

If you will do a lot of front loader work and/or operate around a construction/building site, I'd vote for R4 industrial tires. They are a lot tougher and handle loads better. They are equivalent to what you'd find on backhoes and other equipment.

So the more aggressive ag tread wouldn't benefit me much in the clay/slime, on the hills in woods etc? thanks in advance for the reply

 

[s219]

So the more aggressive ag tread wouldn't benefit me much in the clay/slime, on the hills in woods etc? thanks in advance for the reply

Oh, it will for sure. But it's also more vulnerable to punctures and has a lower load capability. Tires are always a compromise, so you should pick based on the priorities and accept that there will be some trade offs.

That said, 4x4 helps traction in ways tires won't, but there are situations where even 4x4 and optimal tires won't matter. In other words, you can do your best but you might still be screwed. Tractors can get stuck in ways that will blow your mind and make your hair fall out. My solution is to avoid soft ground as much as possible, and be practical about it. Sometimes the only solution to really muddy ground is time, waiting for it to dry.

Around here, once of my worst problems is muddy clay soil and pine needles. Drive through sticky clay and then onto pine straw, and pretty soon the tires are balled up like a mud hut. Makes a huge mess, especially when it starts rubbing on fenders, hoses, wiring, etc.

 

[jeff9366]

I think you have it "together" to make a purchase you will be satisfied with.

Bravo on your wife selection.

 

[grm61]

.No doubt you can notice a difference with loaded tires. The debatable point is, do you need loaded tires to maintain traction? With 4-WD, most tractor owners do not need loaded tires for traction when performing ground engaging work. I can't speak to your conditions, nor tire type, nor tire wear in particular; you may NEED loaded tires.

So You can't speak for me.....but you can speak for "most tractor owners" not needing loaded tires.
Where do you come up with this stuff?:laughing:

 

[woodchipper]

You have used good jugement in my mind! So you are definitely norrowing your search scope. Ag tires will give you more ground clearance. you said you will do trail work. R4s are a compromise between turf and Ag. When you get to working in the woods, even if it looks dry, you will soon find out how quickly mud can appear. If you decide on R4s, then do yourself a favor: mount chains on the rears! No tire is puncture proof. Loaded tires give you more traction, more stability, and a smoother ride!! R4s don't. I'll let you figure out the tire weight loading capacity. A simple question for your dealer to answer. Yes, R4s are wider and bring your center of gravity down, as their flanks are lower. They also offer less ground penetration on wet soil. No doubt.

The reason your dealer has the gear model in stock: they sold all their HST models! So you are in a good position to get a better deal on the gear models. They won't get sold in a day or two. This time of the year is also one of the slowest. again playing to your advantage.
Jump on the machines and play with them on the dealer lot. Having a feel is always a good eye opener.
no doubt HST is better safety wise on any slope...
Keep discussing things with your dearest half, and don't be afraid to ask her opinion, and get her on the seat as well!:thumbsup: you will do both of you a favor.:cool2: