Buying Advice Need help on Final decision

[serenityseeker64]

Dealers are reluctant to negotiate price until you have your complete tractor-loader package finalized. If you want a grapple, include it. If you want a Backhoe, include it. Once you get the package assembled, create a new thread in BUYING/PRICING/COMPAIRISONS FORUM, asking what others have paid and what dealer incentives are available, if any. Take the answers as a guide, nothing more. (Personally, my Kubota dealer treats me extremely well. I have purchased two tractors from him and it would be unlikely I would buy from another Kubota dealer. The advise I have received has been priceless.)

You should consider HST. Most tractors below 60 horsepower are sold with HST today, and you will get the additional cost back when you sell. There is not much demand for gear tractors, new or used, in the Compact Utility Tractor category.

HST's are more reliable than gear/clutch transmissions. They are safer on hills and when mounting implements. Other family members can use safely HST with only a little instruction. You need to catch up, rather than doubting HST without knowing HST.

LINK:https://www.google.com/search?clien...sl#rls=en&q=HST+vs+Gear+site:tractorbynet.com

You need an extra remote to operate clamping of the grapple. It is a front remote. Front remote is operated with an additional control, often a button mounted on the FEL joystick control. Rear remotes are probably standard on your Kioti. (With Kubota rear remotes are extra.) Rear remotes power hydraulically operated implements, like log splitters.

Zero interest is not zero interest. Incentive will be less from Kioti and net price from dealer will not be as generous if you take so called zero interest. If you finance you must buy insurance from Kioti. This is a good thing. Buy insurance and be happy. Having said this, Kioti financing will be cheaper than bank financing.

You have to decide on weight and horsepower. It is a subjective decision. Heavier and more is better if within your budget.

There are two things tractor newbies want: Loaded tires and Backhoes. With 4-WD traction is seldom a problem.

Backhoes are fine if used enough to justify the considerable cost. Problem is, the main part of a tractor is the Three Point Hitch, which is covered by a Backhoe. So to use the Three Point Hitch and Backhoe interchangeably, you are always wrestling the Backhoe on or off. Backhoes should not be stored outside. They need to be stored in a space out of the elements, with humidity control.

Thanks for such a detailed, knowledgeable and insightful reply. It helps quite a bit. Much appreciated.
As far as catching up and doubting without knowing, I am familiar with the hydrostat and don't doubt its convenience or the advantages you list. Having spent hundreds of hours on a cpl of tractors in my younger days I was trying to determine if I really would miss having it as I include budget considerations. You raised some worthwhile points I will need to give further consideration to. Definitely making me re-examine my thought process.

As far as the backhoe, not just a newbie looking for a toy. We will be in a rather remote location and I already have a list of things for which I feel the backhoe would be a giant timesaver, however it too bears another look to see if I can pragmatically and honestly justify it. I have some price estimates for a couple of things I need done right off the bat and they are painful when I get the estimates for someone else to do the work. I feel over time I will use it quite a bit. Had thought about delaying the purchase but the comment about it costing double later makes me think delaying it might be foolhardy. Online (of course) the backhoe didn't seem to be a major PITA to get off and on, but thats just me watching. If not changing frequently, do you feel its its much of a big deal? The climate control issue may be a deal killer either way, so that was a big piece of information.

I should have clarified on the "zero interest". I realize there is no free lunch. When looking at the difference in cash price vs financing price, then looking at cost via amortization schedule, I felt that I still came out better. Did not even think about the insurance though. Very good info, and depending on the cost may not be quite as far ahead as I thought.

Input on the loaded tires was a surprise. Spending hours on these boards seems like so many people felt it was necessary even with fwd because of the FEL. Again more food for thought. Dealership did say they would do for a fee of 100 bucks if I wanted it. Either way, will re-think that position a bit.

Could I get an opinion from you on tires? Not bad where I am until it rains, then it is clay slime/soup, and I mean a mess on the road, driveway etc.. R1 or no?

Again, cannot tell you how much I appreciate the effort you put into the reply and the wisdom you share. Thank you!

 

[serenityseeker64]

Look at the Kioti web site for a little bit on the special deals going on. The cash back is almost always a mystery until you have the hole package figured out and almost always says it cant be used with this or that, BUT In many cases it can be used even when it says it cant be. For example I received a cash back on the back hoe purchase and still was able to take advantage of the FREE Loader program even when the web site said it wasn't do-able (some dealers said it wasn't do-able and only 2 were able to figure out how). I could not however get zero percent interest with the free loader so sometimes what you are able to take advantage of depends on if your doing zero percent, regular finance or paying cash. I paid cash so I was able to capitalize on anything I wanted.
I also had some dealers tell me that the DK wasn't eligible for the Free loader and that some of the cash back deals were not good for the DK so you might want to update yourself on what promotions are going on before talking price again!

By the way the free loader program was still good for the DK series last I looked at their web site. That alone should drop the price considerably to what they have quoted you thus far.

I looked at the site a few times. Wondered if the deal on the free FEL applied to tractor already on the lot and set up, especially the "older" tier three. Great info and strategy here. I am going to make up my package with and without backhoe, with and without hydrostat, and the other coouple of implements I need right off the bat plus the extra hydraulics discussed above. I have some homework to do.

You guys rock and I appreciate all this help, keep any info/opinions coming.

 

[paulfun9]

I had to edit my last post Somehow I deleted some before I was finished with the hole response. Might want to read on my time to dismount and re-mount the backhoe.

 

[serenityseeker64]

I had to edit my last post Somehow I deleted some before I was finished with the hole response. Might want to read on my time to dismount and re-mount the backhoe.

Wow, glad you added the rest. Great info.

On a totally different note, the last month of my life has been inundated with so many people willing to help/advise/school me on things as I undertake this chapter in my life. Couldn't begin to list all the great experiences here. You guys are of the same ilk. Reminds me to take stock of gratitude.

 

[jeff9366]

Could I get an opinion from you on tires? Not bad where I am until it rains, then it is clay slime/soup, and I mean a mess on the road, driveway etc.. R1 or no?

I would observe tractors in your area and get the advice of your dealer. Generally, Industrial Tires, which are wider, are recommended for tractor-loaders. However, if you will have to operate in still wet fields Ag Tires are for you. If you will use the tractor around manure Ag tires shed manure; industrial tires do not. Industrial tires are more puncture resistant than Ags. Industrial Tires vibrate the operator less running over paved roads.

 

[TJP89]

Lot of info here, and lot of thought material. In your case I would go with Ags, as it doesn't sound like the tractor will see pavement too often. Loaded tires is a personal preference, but usually doesn't hurt. Backhoe: If you need it, you need it, get it now. If it is something that will be nice to have, prioritize and see if you can swing it. HST is something you don't miss until you use it, especially with a loader. I can't imagine my CK without HST. IMO, it is well worth the extra 1000 or so. I would take the DK, it is a well proven tractor, in my opinion one of the best tractors on the market for that HP range. The NX is new, tier 4, and untried. The DK is priced high, by about 4 or 5K. I know supply is limited, but that price should get you an HST and extra remotes, possibly grapple plumbing, and loaded tires. I priced out an DK45 HST FEL at 25K, financed in august 2014. Grapples sure are handy, and almost a must for any serious brush clearing. There is wiggle room on a tractor price, but not as much as on a car. Make sure you consider all the options before you buy.

 

[DK35vince]

A Backhoe added later will cost you almost double what it costs as part of your initial tractor purchase.

Sorry, I disagree with this.
When I bought my tractor a backhoe cost was going to be about the same with the tractor purchase or added later.
I priced backhoes a couple years later at several dealers and saved a lot of $$ buying a backhoe/subframe still on the pallet and installing it myself.

 

[s219]

Either tractor is fine, but I'd avoid Tier 4 final on the NX if you can. BTW, the DK is Tier 4 interim, not Tier 3.

Based on your description of uses, I'd recommend HST. You will be a lot more productive, especially when doing loader work. Productivity is a good thing. You didn't know what you were missing with your previous experience on a gear tractor since that was the only choice back then. Nowadays, gear is fine for mowing and ground engaging work, but for any sort of back and forth, grading, landscaping, and moving materials, HST is *way* better.

 

[TJP89]

Sorry, I disagree with this.
When I bought my tractor a backhoe cost was going to be about the same with the tractor purchase or added later.
I priced backhoes a couple years later at several dealers and saved a lot of $$ buying a backhoe/subframe still on the pallet and installing it myself.

It won't cost you double, but chances are it will cost less if you buy it as a package with the tractor.

 

[grm61]

Dealers are reluctant to negotiate price until you have your complete tractor-loader package finalized. If you want a grapple, include it. If you want a Backhoe, include it. Once you get the package assembled, create a new thread in BUYING/PRICING/COMPAIRISONS FORUM, asking what others have paid and what dealer incentives are available, if any. Take the answers as a guide, nothing more. (Personally, my Kubota dealer treats me extremely well. I have purchased two tractors from him and it would be unlikely I would buy from another Kubota dealer. The advise I have received has been priceless.)

You should consider HST. Most tractors below 60 horsepower are sold with HST today, and you will get the additional cost back when you sell. There is not much demand for gear tractors, new or used, in the Compact Utility Tractor category.

HST's are more reliable than gear/clutch transmissions. They are safer on hills and when mounting implements. Other family members can use safely HST with only a little instruction. You need to catch up, rather than doubting HST without knowing HST.

LINK:https://www.google.com/search?clien...sl#rls=en&q=HST+vs+Gear+site:tractorbynet.com

You need an extra remote to operate clamping of the grapple. It is a front remote. Front remote is operated with an additional control, often a button mounted on the FEL joystick control. Rear remotes are probably standard on your Kioti. (With Kubota rear remotes are extra.) Rear remotes power hydraulically operated implements, like log splitters.

Zero interest is not zero interest. Incentive will be less from Kioti and net price from dealer will not be as generous if you take so called zero interest. If you finance you must buy insurance from Kioti. This is a good thing. Buy insurance and be happy. Having said this, Kioti financing will be cheaper than bank financing.

You have to decide on weight and horsepower. It is a subjective decision. Heavier and more is better if within your budget. Clay is tough stuff.

There are two things tractor newbies want: Loaded tires and Backhoes. With 4-WD traction is seldom a problem.

Backhoes are fine if used enough to justify the considerable cost. Problem is, the main part of a tractor is the Three Point Hitch, which is covered by the Backhoe. So to use the Three Point Hitch and Backhoe interchangeably, you are always wrestling the Backhoe on or off. Backhoes should not be stored outside. A Backhoe needs to be stored indoors in a space with humidity control.

A <$400 Bucket Spade is pretty effective. With Bucket Spade on your FEL bucket your Three Point Hitch remains available for implements.

Your contradicting yourself with your comment on weight is better, than chastising a "newbie" for wanting loaded tires.

I can tell you from experience, the difference in the performance on the DK loaded tires and not, is night and day, especially after you pull the Hoe off, which takes 2 minutes off, and 5 on.

A humidity controlled room to store the Hoe ?? Really? :confused2: