Buying Advice Need help on Final decision

[serenityseeker64]

Ok. Just keep in mind my previous post regarding slightly larger tractors if you stay with gear. The overall size and footprint is not dramatically larger to go up to the next size, but the capabilities and ruggedness will increase quite a bit.

Will definitely consider, and thanks.

 

[grm61]

This is all helpful.
2 different dealers, and a sawmill owner close to me (king of all things outdoors..just knows tons) all suggested 45-50 HP for my perceived needs, most leaning towards 50.

Road actually likely has a decent amount of gravel buried in it, hence my desire for the planer (bionic blade type). My sawmill friend swears by them. Will likely still need to have track come out and spot some gravel at minimum.

Discussed the backhoe issues with my dear bride. If I need to rent equipment 30-45 min drive to get it. Not the end of the world but requires some planning. How often will I use it? No real way to say this early, knowing me I will "find" plenty of ways to use it lol. I will admit it is toward the dream end of my must have list. As it will be just me and the bride trying to figure the things we need to do what we can by ourselves. That drove the choice for FEL---a bizzillion it can help with. Same with 4wd, when u need it u need it.

Am I going to see appreciable difference b/w 45-50 in these models?

If I just deal with what is on the Kioti Lot that I described at the beginning, neither would be HST, so then Tier 4 consideration and the difference in specs become deciding factors to look for price package. Seems like most here would go with DK45?

I will say that my gut feeling is that I would want to work with this dealer but it is mostly my gut guiding me.

Am I going to see appreciable difference b/w 45-50 in these models?

I would say no...These are not race cars, My DK45 cab with loaded rears, loader and hoe on is 8000lbs,add a heaping scoop of wet earth....10k, its got plenty of poop to do tractor work, but its not going to pull your cheeks back with that load going down the road...at all, 5HP not going to make a much of a difference with that kind of weight imo.

If you were choosing between the NX50 and the DK45 I would pick the DK to avoid tier4.

Discussed the backhoe issues with my dear bride. If I need to rent equipment 30-45 min drive to get it. Not the end of the world but requires some planning. How often will I use it? No real way to say this early, knowing me I will "find" plenty of ways to use it lol. I will admit it is toward the dream end of my must have list. As it will be just me and the bride trying to figure the things we need to do what we can by ourselves. That drove the choice for FEL---a bizzillion it can help with. Same with 4wd, when u need it u need it.

I am pro Back Hoe...I like the convenience, and to me was worth the investment, most of the projects my Wife dreams up involves digging a hole, aside from her projects I use mine quite a bit, digging out boulders, weeding overgrown gardens, peeling up sod etc... Again, the convenience to me is worth a lot.

The FEL with the QA, yea, invaluable, I would advise purchasing your tractor with the third function valve and plumbed to the front of your loader frame to run a grapple bucket etc.

Two things you will probably want down the road..Pallet forks, and a grapple bucket.

TSO brought up a valid point with the utility tractor if it fits where you need to go....I'd look in the 70hp range.

 

[GManBart]

I may have missed it, but are the prices in the first post for open station, or cab models?

When I shopped new Kiotis about six months ago, the local dealer quoted me $31K for an NX 5010 cab with either R1 or R4 tires (about $100 difference between tires).

For your uses, it sounds like HST might be a good choice, but if you do stick with a gear model, I'd definitely consider going up one size as TSO suggested. If you do that, you will definitely find that the Utility machines offer quite a bit more capability, and if you get one with a power shuttle you won't lose much ease of use compared to an HST setup.

I've had straight gear, power shuttle, and HST machines and I would love to see an HST setup in a Utility tractor, because they really are easy, fast, and reliable, but the cost would jump up quite a bit. That said, the power shuttle on my backhoe is pretty darned easy to use as well.

As far as tires, if your road gets that swampy, I'd really consider R1s. There were swampy areas that I had trouble getting through with my LS (R4047 that had R4s) even in 4WD, but my 2WD Massey with R1s just walked right through easily.

 

[grm61]

I may have missed it, but are the prices in the first post for open station, or cab models?

As far as tires, if your road gets that swampy, I'd really consider R1s. There were swampy areas that I had trouble getting through with my LS (R4047 that had R4s) even in 4WD, but my 2WD Massey with R1s just walked right through easily.

If I remember correctly your LS tires weren't loaded, and your Massey tires are

Not discounting that r1s are better in slop, but if you had 1200Lbs of ballast in your rear tires on the LS, and your counterweight not levering weight off the front, I think your results may have been different

 

[GManBart]

If I remember correctly your LS tires weren't loaded, and your Massey tires are

Not discounting that r1s are better in slop, but if you had 1200Lbs of ballast in your rear tires on the LS, and your counterweight not levering weight off the front, I think your results may have been different

Nope, neither machine has/had loaded tires. Taking the loader off the LS might have helped, but wasn't practical.

 

[grm61]

Nope, neither machine has/had loaded tires. Taking the loader off the LS might have helped, but wasn't practical.

Roger, I thought you had said the Massey had loaded rears, my bad.

 

[serenityseeker64]

"I would say no...These are not race cars, My DK45 cab with loaded rears, loader and hoe on is 8000lbs,add a heaping scoop of wet earth....10k, its got plenty of poop to do tractor work, but its not going to pull your cheeks back with that load going down the road...at all, 5HP not going to make a much of a difference with that kind of weight imo."

LOL! yeah, wasn't thinking race car so much as would I see a perceptible or important difference in work ability. Sounds like no?

"I may have missed it, but are the prices in the first post for open station, or cab models?"
Both open station. Pretty temperate climate here so I didn't even consider a cab, plus I figured maybe not so much bulk in the woods. All in all I just didn't think the weather here would justify. I have a job outside of all this fun stuff so not likely to be days on end plowing etc.

"For your uses, it sounds like HST might be a good choice, but if you do stick with a gear model, I'd definitely consider going up one size as TSO suggested. If you do that, you will definitely find that the Utility machines offer quite a bit more capability, and if you get one with a power shuttle you won't lose much ease of use compared to an HST setup."

I'm hearing ya. Trying to consider all this, cost, and the NON tier 4 available. Could have worse problems than making this decision though right?

 

[GManBart]

Roger, I thought you had said the Massey had loaded rears, my bad.

No worries. My 8N had loaded rears, so maybe that's what you were recalling...I'm sure I mentioned that at some point. I have a set of loaded turf tires/wheels for the Massey, but have never tried them. I've considered throwing them on with chains for the winter, but have been too busy working on my barn interior to get around to it.

 

[grm61]

"I would say no...These are not race cars, My DK45 cab with loaded rears, loader and hoe on is 8000lbs,add a heaping scoop of wet earth....10k, its got plenty of poop to do tractor work, but its not going to pull your cheeks back with that load going down the road...at all, 5HP not going to make a much of a difference with that kind of weight imo."

LOL! yeah, wasn't thinking race car so much as would I see a perceptible or important difference in work ability. Sounds like no?

"I may have missed it, but are the prices in the first post for open station, or cab models?"
Both open station. Pretty temperate climate here so I didn't even consider a cab, plus I figured maybe not so much bulk in the woods. All in all I just didn't think the weather here would justify. I have a job outside of all this fun stuff so not likely to be days on end plowing etc.

"For your uses, it sounds like HST might be a good choice, but if you do stick with a gear model, I'd definitely consider going up one size as TSO suggested. If you do that, you will definitely find that the Utility machines offer quite a bit more capability, and if you get one with a power shuttle you won't lose much ease of use compared to an HST setup."

I'm hearing ya. Trying to consider all this, cost, and the NON tier 4 available. Could have worse problems than making this decision though right?

LOL! yeah, wasn't thinking race car so much as would I see a perceptible or important difference in work ability. Sounds like no?

No, unless a couple PTO HP would be a concern...FYI the DK45 gear is 38 at the PTO.

I think what alot of folks are chasing is a heavy tractor with 45 or 50 horse does not feel "peppy" in high range.
My tractor is hydrostatic and that eats up a little power, the hst 45 is rated at 36 at the pto.

I also have A/C that is rumored to take 7 or so HP, at idle you can hear it pull the motor down when the A/C clutch engages.

That said, I do most of my work in medium range. shuttling dirt, spreading gravel etc.
If I really need to horse it hard and spin all 4 tires with the diff locked, I will pull it into low range, it has plenty of power for tractor work.

The DK45 is very capable, and a great work companion, lifts more and higher than other tractors in its class, 2765lbs to full height properly ballasted....loaded tires and couterweight :thumbsup:.. and as for as I'm concerned was the sweet spot for Kioti for value.

FYI these tractors "need" loaded rears don't listen to the nay sayers.

 

[grm61]

No worries. My 8N had loaded rears, so maybe that's what you were recalling...I'm sure I mentioned that at some point. I have a set of loaded turf tires/wheels for the Massey, but have never tried them. I've considered throwing them on with chains for the winter, but have been too busy working on my barn interior to get around to it.

Working on interior..... thats a good thing, congratulations!:thumbsup:

 

[TJP89]

"I would say no...These are not race cars, My DK45 cab with loaded rears, loader and hoe on is 8000lbs,add a heaping scoop of wet earth....10k, its got plenty of poop to do tractor work, but its not going to pull your cheeks back with that load going down the road...at all, 5HP not going to make a much of a difference with that kind of weight imo."

LOL! yeah, wasn't thinking race car so much as would I see a perceptible or important difference in work ability. Sounds like no?

"I may have missed it, but are the prices in the first post for open station, or cab models?"
Both open station. Pretty temperate climate here so I didn't even consider a cab, plus I figured maybe not so much bulk in the woods. All in all I just didn't think the weather here would justify. I have a job outside of all this fun stuff so not likely to be days on end plowing etc.

"For your uses, it sounds like HST might be a good choice, but if you do stick with a gear model, I'd definitely consider going up one size as TSO suggested. If you do that, you will definitely find that the Utility machines offer quite a bit more capability, and if you get one with a power shuttle you won't lose much ease of use compared to an HST setup."

I'm hearing ya. Trying to consider all this, cost, and the NON tier 4 available. Could have worse problems than making this decision though right?

You won't notice the HP difference, but you will notice the loader. I don't know the specs, but the DK loader has great lift capacity, don't know what the NX is, but that would be more of a factor than the HP. After plowing through heavy snow today for the first time with the CK. I've concluded that loaded tires are probably a good idea for heavy traction needs.

 

[TJP89]

That would be your typical sales yapper....ridiculous:confused2:

Maybe not as much as you think. I've heard the same from several people here, and he was pushing me toward the cheaper options. I don't think chains will ever improve the traction on Ag tires, but they're very common on R4s.

 

[TSO]

The DK45 is very capable, and a great work companion, lifts more and higher than other tractors in its class, 2765lbs to full height properly ballasted....

Higher than some... Not all however. And more than most, but not all.

 

[grm61]

I don't think chains will ever improve the traction on Ag tires, but they're very common on R4s.

My dad runs chains on his loaded R1s on his JD in the winter, he has hills and ice to deal with, yes they do make a big difference.
I stand by my comment on the sales yapper.

A turf tire would give a slight edge in sand, and some types of snow, but for general dirt work in all types of weather no way.

 

[GManBart]

Maybe not as much as you think. I've heard the same from several people here, and he was pushing me toward the cheaper options. I don't think chains will ever improve the traction on Ag tires, but they're very common on R4s.

A turf tire will have more traction than an R1 or R4 in pretty much only one situation....flat, hard ground/pavement. People like to use chains with turf tires for ice/snow because the chains lay out better on them, and allow for a somewhat better engagement between chain and ground, but it's the chain doing the work, not really the tire type.

Chains on R1s will make a huge difference....why wouldn't they? It's still the chain biting into the snow/ice.

In fact, many machines with R4s can't fit chains in them...lots of comments about that here....they take up more of the fender space, and there's no room for chains.

 

[TJP89]

My dad runs chains on his loaded R1s on his JD in the winter, he has hills and ice to deal with, yes they do make a big difference.
I stand by my comment on the sales yapper.

A turf tire would give a slight edge in sand, and some types of snow, but for general dirt work in all types of weather no way.

I don't agree with him on that statement, I just think he was trying to illustrate his dislike, for whatever reason, of R4s. I can't think why the R4s would have less tractions that the R3s.

 

[TJP89]

A turf tire will have more traction than an R1 or R4 in pretty much only one situation....flat, hard ground/pavement. People like to use chains with turf tires for ice/snow because the chains lay out better on them, and allow for a somewhat better engagement between chain and ground, but it's the chain doing the work, not really the tire type.

Chains on R1s will make a huge difference....why wouldn't they? It's still the chain biting into the snow/ice.

In fact, many machines with R4s can't fit chains in them...lots of comments about that here....they take up more of the fender space, and there's no room for chains.

The R1s are so aggressive already that the chains wouldn't help to much, if you could even get them to sit right, at least that's the way I look at it. If I had traction problems with my unloaded R1s, I would load them long before thinking of chains. If I lost traction then, it would be time for a new tractor.

 

[paulfun9]

The R1s are so aggressive already that the chains wouldn't help to much, if you could even get them to sit right, at least that's the way I look at it. If I had traction problems with my unloaded R1s, I would load them long before thinking of chains. If I lost traction then, it would be time for a new tractor.

Chains are for ICE and packed wet snow that is just as bad as ice. In my experience no tire is good on these surfaces even the fancy special made ICE tires they design for running on ice. They work well when the Ice is completely frozen but add the wet and they lose traction just like everything else.
A chain however will chip into the Ice and make traction no mater if the Ice is wet or dry. A stud may work just as well in many cases but they are much harder to install and take out just for winter use.

They make chains that are designed to work with AG tires and if installed properly they are very effective. They will also work better on Ice than loading the tires which really wont help at all.

 

[GManBart]

The R1s are so aggressive already that the chains wouldn't help to much, if you could even get them to sit right, at least that's the way I look at it. If I had traction problems with my unloaded R1s, I would load them long before thinking of chains. If I lost traction then, it would be time for a new tractor.

If you read tire/chain discussions on forestry forums, pretty much everybody suggests R1 tires and add chains for when it's really muddy, or for snow/ice. I found the picture below in one of those discussions....the chains are on R1s, sit perfectly, and will clearly be better in virtually any situation where traction is limited....mud, snow or ice.

My Massey has R1s (unloaded) and they'll spin like crazy on very hard snow or ice. I've gone so far as to put my 1,400lb counterweight on the 3pt, and it barely helped (was pulling a truck out of a snowbank). To fix that I bought some chains, but haven't had to use them yet.

 

[varmint]

Now those are chains! Ice will not be an issue. I doubt if you will ever get stuck, if you stay out of mud pits or quicksand.