MaX28XlL is 98 lb weakling, Main Pump Pressure Low

[mike69440]

My 2013 Max28 XL shuttle has less than 4 hours on it. I bought it as a new leftover in NY State. (Tier 3!)
I have not worked the machine other than play move some snow, but immediately noticed the loader seemed especially weak.

The machine has no ballast, in fact the front guard is removed to add a expanded metal grill guard.

The loader will barely, just barely start to lift the front tires off ground.

The Blade my excavator weighs less than 1100 lbs, Just trying to lift one corner with it in float, the Max 28 loader will barely budge it.
My Max 28 bucket will not even break out a good load of soft snow in a pile.

My tired weak smaller Kubota has as much fight, if not more.

First thing I tried was the relief valve on the loader, as it looks it was ever adjusted as there is like no paint marring from wrenching.

Turning the screw in made no difference, nor did two turns screwing it out. It took 3 full turns out on the adjustment screw for me to notice any difference in loader performance.

Therefore my conclusion is the main pump relief is set very low.

That will mean also the 3 pt lift won't be worth anything.

I'd be happy just to be able to be at 90% of advertised rated capacity.
Could someone tell or better yet post a diagram or photo of how to set the mail pump pressure and just where is the pump relief valve located?

I'd very much appreciate it very much, as a old guy with poor eyesight crawling around in the mud is not pretty.

PS: I think I see it hiding behind the loader frame on Left Side?

 

[BobG_in_VA]

I assume its under warranty? Why are you trying all these things...have the dealer take care of it or have him/her take it back...Don't know what else to say.,.. BobG in VA

 

[mike69440]

I assume its under warranty? Why are you trying all these things...have the dealer take care of it or have him/her take it back...Don't know what else to say.,.. BobG in VA

a. BOUGHT OUT OF STATE. That would be over a 500 mile road trip.

b. Even if local dealer gave me time of day, I'd have to haul it there at my time and expense. Still a 50 mile haul.

c. In 15 years, the only time (once) any of my equipment has been serviced by anyone but me, it was an insurance claim due to fire.

 

[J_J]

Your tractor probably didn't have a FEL from the factory.

So the 3pt relief was the only and main relief.

Since someone added a FEL, the pump flow probably goes to the FEL first, and therefore, the FEL relief now sets the relief pressure for the tractor.

If in fact the FEL relief pressure was set wrong, or the relief springs are broke, the FEL relief setting will limit the power the tractor has as to the FEL and the 3pt.

I recommend installing a 3000 psi hyd gauge in a tee in the IN port of the FEL valve, and use it to trouble shoot and monitor the tractor hyd system.

Hyd gauge setup should cost about $30.

Did the relief actually work when you held the lever to max cyl cycle?

You did check fluid level, and filters are good.

.

 

[J_J]

Your tractor probably didn't have a FEL from the factory.

So the 3pt relief was the only and main relief.

Since someone added a FEL, the pump flow probably goes to the FEL first, and therefore, the FEL relief now sets the relief pressure for the tractor.

If i fact the FEL relief pressure was set wrong, or the relief springs are broke, the FEL relief setting will limit the power the tractor has as to the FE and the 3pt.

I recommend installing a 3000 psi hyd gauge in a tee in the IN port of the FEL valve, and use it to trouble shoot and monitor the tractor hyd system.

Hyd gauge setup should cost about $30.

Is your FEL relief screw adjustable or shim adjustable?

.

 

[drajj5]

Mike

I totally understand your reasons for not wanting to go to the dealer, you and I are similar in that regard. I will try and post up the hydraulic flow charts and related pump relief valve location for you in the morning; I have the day off work.

Others have posted about sticking or not fully connected Quick disconnect fittings on your loader. Wouldn't hurt to disconnect and reconnect those hoses to see if that is your culprit.

The loader will not lift the wheels too far off of the ground with a flat/level bucket. If I roll my bucket down then lower the arms it will lift the front of the tractor plenty high though

Don

 

[mike69440]

Your tractor probably didn't have a FEL from the factory.

So the 3pt relief was the only and main relief.

Since someone added a FEL, the pump flow probably goes to the FEL first, and therefore, the FEL relief now sets the relief pressure for the tractor.

If in fact the FEL relief pressure was set wrong, or the relief springs are broke, the FEL relief setting will limit the power the tractor has as to the FEL and the 3pt.

I recommend installing a 3000 psi hyd gauge in a tee in the IN port of the FEL valve, and use it to trouble shoot and monitor the tractor hyd system.

Hyd gauge setup should cost about $30.

Did the relief actually work when you held the lever to max cyl cycle?

You did check fluid level, and filters are good.

.

Part of my day job is to design hydraulic machine tool fixtures. I thought this was going to be a sinple adjustment of the loader valve.
With the brutal weather and other projects, I really have not even bothered to get into sorting this out till now, but I will get a test gage Tee'd into the inlet to the FEL to see what he main pump is up to.
I kinda doubt anything is up upth the loader relief spring, Then again sometimes new out of the box is messed up.

Looks like I'll be ordering some qick connects and fittings from Surplus Center.

Drajj5;
Thanks for looking into this. I was not planning to have to scrounge up a service manual this soon.

 

[J_J]

mike69440 ,


You asked where the pump relief is.

Open center hyd systems generally do not put a relief valve at the pump.

The hyd circuit should have a relief at the first valve in the flow path. The setting on this relief valve will set the max operating pressure for the other valves.

Each valve could have a relief valve and you might have three or more on a tractor.

You would logically set them all the same.

 

[drajj5]

Ok This is for the Max 28 shuttle.... there are some variations between the auto and the manual shift (these are for the manual)

Hope this point you in the right direction

Good luck, J_J is right - you will need a hyd gauge to check the pressures. Please post your results as I am curious as to what is causing your issues
Don

 

[mike69440]

Ok This is for the Max 28 shuttle.... there are some variations between the auto and the manual shift (these are for the manual)

Hope this point you in the right direction

Good luck, J_J is right - you will need a hyd gauge to check the pressures. Please post your results as I am curious as to what is causing your issues
Don

Don

Thank you. I appreciate you even titled the photos!

I'll order fittings and plug in a gage.

 

[drajj5]

Anytime!

Good luck, I am sure you will get it to do whatever it is you need it to do.

 

[David Devuono]

My B3200 is of similar size but less advertized power on the loader. That advertized lift is at the bucket pivot pin and not the bucket front edge. For sure it should break out a bucket of soft snow. What size bucket on the loader? I use a 54 inch for snow but for hard digging I use a 48 inch toothed bucket which has more acceptible break out force. If your tractor has a 60 inch bucket, you may be experiencing normal operation. Good Luck

 

[mike69440]

My B3200 is of similar size but less advertized power on the loader. That advertized lift is at the bucket pivot pin and not the bucket front edge. For sure it should break out a bucket of soft snow. What size bucket on the loader? I use a 54 inch for snow but for hard digging I use a 48 inch toothed bucket which has more acceptible break out force. If your tractor has a 60 inch bucket, you may be experiencing normal operation. Good Luck

Best thing I ever did was to put Ecso teeth on my L39 Bucket. I'm considering a tootbar, maybe a BXpanded Piranha for the Max.
The Max28 (ML205?) Loader comes with a 52" bucket that is about 7 Cu Ft. I ordered fittings and a short piece of hose by mail order to hook up my 5,000 psi gauge.
I pulled the engine side covers to get a look at my new tractor. Having the engine panels off made it a lot clearer as to how the hydraulics was routed.

**** that oil dipstick is not so easy to reach! Kind of a pain.
Maybe this weekend I can get to some welding on the stuff I'm doing to the tractor.

Snow is finally beginning to melt. Supposed to be almost 60 F tomorrow!

 

[mike69440]

Rather than post my results in numerous locations, here os the link to post #55 in kubota-buying-pricing
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...98-l45-tlb-4n1-thumb-tulsa-6.html#post4104276

My Max28 is about 100 psi low on pressure. Does anyone know if Mahindra sells shims for the relief valve?

 

[mike69440]

Max28 is up to Spec

Many thanks to Dave at Dave´s tractor and drajj5 for their help in assisting me in adjusting my Max28 so that it performs to spec and then a just a bit more, rather than living with factory pressure below spec.

I think I'll leave the pressure gage on the loader valve for a while.

Today I got the grill guard welded, the front weight brack fabricated, and ut sunshade bracket done on the Max28, but I spent most of the day repairing and reinforcing he QA and frame to my L39's old Fisher plow, taking off the tire chains, putting the loader bucket on and greasing the rest of my equipment.

The Max28XL lifted the +750lb. plow, but without ballast sure was light on the rear. The smaller Kubota I just sold could not quite lift the plow.

It is way too muddy for field work, beside the is still snow in spots., But tommorrw I'll finally get some seat time that does not involve !#)_*$*&()!! plowing snow, taking down some fencing, a few trees, and moving rock with the Excavator & L39.

 

[oldpilgrim]

Exactly what did you do and how did you do it? im sure others would like to know.

 

[mike69440]

Exactly what did you do and how did you do it? I’m sure others would like to know.

The Hydraulic Block is right below the Oil filter.

I thank Dave at Dave tractor for telling me to use a 27 MM socket, 1/2" Drive with 3" extension and a breaker bar to remove the relief valve.

I used an 0.035" thin stainless washer, about 11/16" OD. and a dab of grease to holt it in the top of the cap.

This gave me about 2400 psi pressure, so I backed off the relief in the loader valve to drop the pressure to a bit over the high side of the tolerance. The spec range of the pressure is 2060 to 2130 PSI. I set the relief on the loader to 2200 PSI at about 1500 RPM. All in all, I only increased the pressure 300 PSI but it makes enough of a difference the loader seems right for the size of the Max28. On a good note. the pressure only changed 50-100 PSIG between idle and 2500 RPM, indicating the pump internal tolerances are not recirculating much.

Without ballast, if you pick up a load on the corner of the bucket, one rear tire comes off ground. If a load is in the center, the rears stay on ground and the loader goes into relief. The engine & oil pump do not strain with the hydraulics going into relief. Given the size of the tractor, that's all I can expect.

Removable ag type loaders are flexi so I'm not going to be reckless banging into immoveable objects or drive into pliesr eal hard. The Loader on the L39 is far more rigid, as it is part of a sub frame and this will do the heavy lifting around my place.

Now that thats taken care of, I really need to get my combination 3 Pt. QA hitch, removeable counter weight, tow-draw bar, middle buster, ripper shank, tool boxes, sprayer tank holder, and TOOL CARRIER welded together. I nearly ran over my chain saw as it bounced out of the bucket. Never carry anything valuable moving fast in the bucket.

 

[drajj5]

Sounds like you got it set as my loader will do the same. Wife asked to pluck some daylilies/irises (flowers that have bulbs), so I thought I would just hook the corner of the bucket just underneath them,"they have multiplied over the years and you could no longer reach the birdbath that was centered in a 6' diameter mass of flowers. Scared/uneasy as I felt the opposite rear tire lift off the ground. Buggers were so thick I had to used the backhoe to separate the mass of bulbs.

 

[cgendron]

Sounds like you have that front loader working as advertised now. I have a MAX 28 also. Last fall I was able to lift half pallets of sod off the ground. I have pallet forks that attach to the bucket. We did move the rolls of sod all to one side of the pallet before lifting. The center of the weight was still about two feet in front of the pins where they quote the 1400 lb lift capacity. But basically I was lifting about 1100 lbs two feet in front of the pins. I was pretty happy about that. Couldn't tilt the bucket, but I could at least lift it. Plus I put two people on the back of the tractor for ballast. LOL

later,
Curt

 

[DavesTractor]

Glad you got this performing Mike. The Max22/24/25 and the larger Max26/28 are strong performers, but not with low pressure. System pressure must be at spec, nothing lower will do as that is how the specs in the brochures are calculated. If anyone else has a Max XL model and it isn't a little hot rod of a tractor, have your dealer check pressures the next time you have it in for service.