Wind Turbine ********. Just opened the mail and seen the plan for three massive units

[buickanddeere]

Dark no need to discredit the article. You know what he means, he calls it "storing solar energy" because he's implying that you have solar collectors and no place to put the energy when it exceeds your immediate need. Storage is where it's at. Solar energy stored in a battery is similar to energy stored in petroleum. The each have their costs, challenges (and pollutions).





Big hurdles to overcome but safely storing energy is the solution. Suffice it to say that whenever an alternate energy de-values petroleum, a large marketing effort is necessary to prevent people making changes in acceptance of the new method. In the past, big energy could purchase and scuttle the technology, but with these rich folks like Musk (who want to change the world) they cant. So they have to discredit it, or cause legislation to prevent its acceptance.

It's really a great thing that some of these rich fellas want to change the world. But if they could get rid of the computers (where their $$ came from) we might actually be better off.

When you think of a guy with 90Kwh in the wall of his garage that sounds kinda scary, and I'm sure it can be made "illegal" with $$$ for the lobbyists. But if gasoline was invented in 2015, don't think for a moment they'd let any old dude pump it into his car at every street corner in the country. Or store 60 gallons of gasoline in a couple plastic vehicle tanks in a residential garage.

The headline to persuade John and Jane technically clueless Public that the earth and their grandchildren will die unless they purchase Tesla's product.

 

[buickanddeere]

I really think that government wants a system that continually needs maintenance. Like our Highways. Recently a meeting of wind power proponents held a meeting right next to the Niagara river that has a Hydroelectric plant on it built in the 1960's. It is super productive and consistent. More plants along this river would probably make nuclear obsolete. Just like tapping the Alaskan oil fields would make the middle east obsolete. :2cents: Think I'm starting to see a theme here. Keep the public needy and in the dark. :fiery:

What extra plants along the Niagara river ? How much water do you think there is? If all the current Niagara generating facilities are operated at full power. The flow over the Falls decreases to the point that the visual impact is obvious and only allowed at night by the Niagara Park Commission. Federal and International water regulations also require water flow.
Are you aware that Beck 1 and Beck II operate at partial capacity at night and on weekends. This is to save Hydro One from paying a penalty while giving power for freee to New York and Michigan. While the operating nuclear and hydro electric is paid zero $$$. At the same time however wind turbines are paid 13.5, gas turbines 16.5 and solar 39.5 to 80.2 cents.
What do you think of that ?

 

[buickanddeere]

After living about 1200 ft from a 1.5MW wind turbine (395 ft tall) for the past 9 years, I am entertained by the gloom and doom crowd. I am on the edge of a 195 unit wind farm.

There are many, many things that would be much more objectionable to me. The vast majpority of residents of our County are satisfied with this sort of industry in our back yard. The PILOT contributes 9 million a year in tax relief plus about 1.5 million to landowners along with a good number of jobs. They do not require infrastructure improvements by local municipalities as most industries do. They require negligible acreage (farms use all but a very small footprint from the tower) I've heard all the gloom and doom many times and all of it is exaggerated/distorted. The vibration claim is made up....no negative health effects....those who have a great dislike are actually annoyed by them but that's it!
Wind turbine noise not linked to health problems, Health Canada finds - Technology & Science - CBC News
A Health Canada study has found no link between exposure to wind turbine noise and negative health effects in people.

Wind turbine noise did not have any measurable effect on illness and chronic disease, stress and sleep quality, Health Canada said.

However, the louder the wind turbine noise was, the more people reported being very or extremely annoyed, the department reported in a summary released today of the Wind Turbine Noise and Health Study.

The $2.1-million study, conducted with Statistics Canada in southern Ontario and Prince Edward Island, was launched in 2012. At that time, groups such as Wind Concerns Ontario had alleged that growing numbers of wind turbines were making people ill.

Sound: wind energy and human health
Studies show no evidence for direct human health effects from wind turbines
The credible peer-reviewed scientific data and various government reports in the United States, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom refute the claim that wind farms cause negative health impacts.

In their own independent reviews of available evidence, Ontario痴 Chief Medical Officer of Health and Australia痴 National Health and Medical Research Council found that sound from wind turbines does not cause negative health impacts.
Additionally, the Massachusetts Departments of Environmental Protection and of Public Health recently commissioned a panel of experts with backgrounds in public health, epidemiology, toxicology, neurology and sleep medicine, neuroscience, and mechanical engineering to analyze 鍍he biological plausibility or basis for health effects of turbines (noise, vibration, and flicker). The review of existing studies included both peer-reviewed and non-peer reviewed literature.
========================

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and many find this means of production of electricity quite pleasing. (Beats living next to nuclear, coal, gas production plants or mines/wells)

Loren

Loren.
The health Studies were conducted AFTER the people who had problems with the noise and strobbing had already MOVED away. What is a study going to find with people who are getting paid money for leasing land to turbine operators?

 

[buickanddeere]

$2500? Try $1500. Last fall I bought a Latitude E65xx (15" screen, 4th gen i5, 8GB of RAM, 500GB spinning disk, 128GB SSD, Win7 Pro, ABGN wireless, Bluetooth, backlit keyboard with a built in 10key pad and a 3 year NBD onsite warranty) for just under $1500. Granted, I ordered the SSD and 4GB of the RAM from Amazon, but still.

Aaron Z

Now made in China instead of the USA. Low wages, no pension, no healthcare, cheap power from coal and no concerns about environmental pollution. Well I guess so the price came down.

 

[buickanddeere]

What was the cost of cleaning up after Chernobyl? What has Japan spent on recovering from Fukushima so far? Do we know the real costs of dealing with the waste or decommissioning such plants or have those been adequately insured against or guaranteed? What is the net present value of the beta of the single-target plant from a grid security perspective compared to the beta of more distributed generation? Etc, etc. The same sorts of vague and hard to pin down cost analysis can be applied to just about every form of generation.

Personally, I think nuclear in some situations might be about the best option. Just as wind in others is the best.

Imagine the cost of cleaning up asbestos , mercury , cadmium, lead, PBC's, furans and dioxins around the country. Nuclear is cheap by comparison.

 

[buickanddeere]

A link to the closest of the three new turbines. The info is from the developers site so I'm sure there is no slanting or omissions. Derated to only 101db average Majestic Wind Farm | Leader Resources The other two adjacent turbines Meyer Wind Farm | Leader Resources

 

[aczlan]

A link to the closest of the three new turbines. The info is from the developers site so I'm sure there is no slanting or omissions. Derated to only 101db average Majestic Wind Farm | Leader Resources The other two adjacent turbines Meyer Wind Farm | Leader Resources

Might want to read the whole noise study. The units are rated at 101db at the blades, but calculated to be 46db or less (at 10m/s [22MPH] windspeeds) on the adjoining properties per the noise level study.
For comparison, a "Quiet suburb, conversation at home" or "Large electrical transformers at 100 ft" is 50db (per Comparative Examples of Noise Levels | Real World Examples and Decibel Levels |Industrial Noise Control).

Aaron Z

 

[houstonscott]

Assuming there are no hidden(externalized) costs.....poor assumption! Springtime Homes :: Hidden Costs of Energy Bills Fracking for Natural Gas Natural Gas NG enjoys a repuation of being a cleaner fossil fuel. While it certainly has a lower carbon footprint than coal or oil, the damage that its doing to our water supply could prove to be worse for the environment and our society than the carbon it saves. The dramatic proliferation of NG hydrofracking operations has been largely un-regulated. Its unclear what hidden costs this new, energy boom is costing us but when you talk to our neighbors in PA that have had their wells and streams ruined, its obvious that hydrofracking for NG is costing much more than the $ per therm. Picture of suspected hydrofracking pollution on surface water.Pennsylvania homeowner lights her tap water on fire after being contaminated from hydrofracking for Natural Gas. EPA finds fracking chemicals in well water Fracking makes well water flammable Fracking documentary trailer American Rivers website and link to fracking problems Loren

You know that's propaganda, why do you continue the misinformation. HS

 

[buickanddeere]

Might want to read the whole noise study. The units are rated at 101db at the blades, but calculated to be 46db or less (at 10m/s [22MPH] windspeeds) on the adjoining properties per the noise level study.
For comparison, a "Quiet suburb, conversation at home" or "Large electrical transformers at 100 ft" is 50db (per Comparative Examples of Noise Levels | Real World Examples and Decibel Levels |Industrial Noise Control).

Aaron Z

Under some weather conditions and with a straight unimpeded sound path. The turbines are rather loud. Standing directly underneath is fairly quiet if the turbine has a modern helical gearbox and heavy cast nacelle. It's the low frequency sound that carries the distance and penetrates.

 

[Loren49]

Loren.
The health Studies were conducted AFTER the people who had problems with the noise and strobbing had already MOVED away. What is a study going to find with people who are getting paid money for leasing land to turbine operators?

You are making this up. Got any facts?

Quote from sited study
Studies show no evidence for direct human health effects from wind turbines
The credible peer-reviewed scientific data and various government reports in the United States, Canada, Australia and the United Kingdom refute the claim that wind farms cause negative health impacts.

You really think the peer reviewed studies skipped the complainers??? References???

Loren

 

[Loren49]

You know that's propaganda, why do you continue the misinformation. HS

Some peoples facts are viewed as propaganda by others. There are significant hidden external costs of burning any fossil fuel (everything has some hidden cost).

Do you have any credible reference to defend your belief?

Potential Health and Environmental Effects of Hydrofracking in the Williston Basin, Montana

Natural Gas Drilling: Impacts of Fracking on Health, Water | NRDC

Fracking OutpacesScience on Its Impact | EnvY : The Journal of the Yale School of Foresty and Environmental Studies

Michael McElroy and Xi Lu on natural gas, fracking, and U.S. energy prospects | Harvard Magazine Jan-Feb 2013

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

Listen, when you have to bring the facts with proof, that holds up in court in this country, your fracking pieces melt away to zero. Google UFO's, lots of stuff, but prove ET is buzzing around and landed in Roswell, that's a whole different thing. HS

 

[TomSeller]

, your fracking pieces melt away to zero. . HS

All the way to zero? Really? Unbelievable!

 

[Loren49]

Listen, when you have to bring the facts with proof, that holds up in court in this country, your fracking pieces melt away to zero. Google UFO's, lots of stuff, but prove ET is buzzing around and landed in Roswell, that's a whole different thing. HS

Interesting view...but not supported by facts:

Fracking Chemicals Case Heard By Wyoming Supreme Court

http://trib.com/business/energy/wyo...cle_7d15a01f-df71-5786-99fb-f4685d0c7279.html

The Wyoming Supreme Court on Wednesday reversed the ruling of a Casper judge who found that ingredients used in fracking fluids are exempt from public disclosure.

Wyoming Supreme Court Remands Fracking Chemical Disclosure Case To District Court For Reconsideration - Energy and Natural Resources - United States

Texas family plagued with ailments gets $3M in fracking judgment - CNN.com

Texas family plagued with ailments gets $3M in 1st-of-its-kind fracking judgment


You have an interesting use for "melts away to zero"

Even if there were no problems with fracking, burning of fossil fuels has significant external costs. Look it up under science.

Loren

 

[TomSeller]

Interesting view...but not supported by facts:

The Wyoming Supreme Court on Wednesday reversed the ruling of a Casper judge who found that ingredients used in fracking fluids are exempt from public disclosure.

Texas family plagued with ailments gets $3M in 1st-of-its-kind fracking judgment

You have an interesting use for "melts away to zero"

Even if there were no problems with fracking, burning of fossil fuels has significant external costs. Look it up under science.

Loren

Interesting. It sounds like Halliburton and Aruba were the real "Zeros". I guess you could say their defense "melted away to zero" in court.

 

[houstonscott]

Interesting view...but not supported by facts: Fracking Chemicals Case Heard By Wyoming Supreme Court http://trib.com/business/energy/wyoming-supreme-court-reverses-district-court-decision-on-fracking-fluids/article_7d15a01f-df71-5786-99fb-f4685d0c7279.html The Wyoming Supreme Court on Wednesday reversed the ruling of a Casper judge who found that ingredients used in fracking fluids are exempt from public disclosure. Wyoming Supreme Court Remands Fracking Chemical Disclosure Case To District Court For Reconsideration - Energy and Natural Resources - United States Texas family plagued with ailments gets $3M in fracking judgment - CNN.com Texas family plagued with ailments gets $3M in 1st-of-its-kind fracking judgment You have an interesting use for "melts away to zero" Even if there were no problems with fracking, burning of fossil fuels has significant external costs. Look it up under science. Loren

Well, I guess you are going to lead an unhappy life because fossil fuels are going to power the world for the next 1000 years with no issues. Air is clean, water is safe and clean, pollution is all but gone, certainly doesn't effect anyone, pollution left from the middle of the last century is being cleaned up and is nearly undetectable anywhere in the country. Put a tank of gas in the old Alfa Romeo (with no EPA crap on it) and go enjoy a road. Quit sitting around trying to tell us how bad it is, we should all live like you, and be unhappy. Life is good, enjoy it. HS

 

[Loren49]

Well, I guess you are going to lead an unhappy life because fossil fuels are going to power the world for the next 1000 years with no issues. Air is clean, water is safe and clean, pollution is all but gone, certainly doesn't effect anyone, pollution left from the middle of the last century is being cleaned up and is nearly undetectable anywhere in the country. Put a tank of gas in the old Alfa Romeo (with no EPA crap on it) and go enjoy a road. Quit sitting around trying to tell us how bad it is, we should all live like you, and be unhappy. Life is good, enjoy it. HS

You have no clue as to how much I enjoy life or how I'm living my life. You make unfounded and outright non factual claims in response to the facts that indicate your last post was made up. Undetectable....really..I won't bother and spend the couple minutes it would take reference numerous facts that indicate your claim again is ridiculous and false. If you care to become informed google US city air quality or fish consumption restrictions in US waters or ......


Its clearly time for your medications....if not, it should be.

You make claims....ignore information that contradict you...and make another outlandish claim??????

Loren

 

[houstonscott]

You have no clue as to how much I enjoy life or how I'm living my life. You make unfounded and outright non factual claims in response to the facts that indicate your last post was made up. Undetectable....really..I won't bother and spend the couple minutes it would take reference numerous facts that indicate your claim again is ridiculous and false. If you care to become informed google US city air quality or fish consumption restrictions in US waters or ...... Its clearly time for your medications....if not, it should be. You make claims....ignore information that contradict you...and make another outlandish claim?????? Loren

You sound mean spirited, hatful, and unhappy to me! The doom and gloom you spout simply isn't true, thankfully your types remain as marginalized as the tin foil hat guys. Better turn up the NG heat because the world is cooling has been for 18 years now. HS

 

[Sodo]

You make claims....ignore information that contradict you...and make another outlandish claim??

Loren theres no point debating with any of these fellas whose income is related to convincing people of a certain "direction". Their quality of life is tied to $$$ is their guiding light. They are motivated. Outlandish claims are his way to suck you in to an angry response - its his way of getting you to "discredit yourself".

 

[Sysop]

Anyone who thinks they have "all the facts" to actually "argue" either side is already discredited in my opinion. There are too many facts yet to be determined for anyone to be 100% correct. The situation is much larger than any study or our limited sciences can PROVE...

You have one side being paid to say one thing, the other side being paid to say another, and a bunch of folk in the middle. The middle crowd is seemingly clueless to the fact that getting all worked up about the talking points of either side is rather silly. Most folk seem to have issue stepping back and viewing it all for what it is.

It is a well known fact when the gossip/tabloid trashpapers at the grocery store are saying Will Smith had the child from an alien encounter, his next movie will get bigger numbers at the box office. Why they can't see that the "arguments" and "talking points" are just increases in pay for all the losers causing the conflict and confusion is beyond me...